How the U.S. Lost Out on iPhone Work

[rwh11385]

How hard is it to read, basically, "don't rely on being an assembler"? And become helpful in what is in demand of the modern American economy?

Think about how many people used to be farmers. In 1900, nearly 40% of our population were farmers. In 1950s, it was 12.2% and each farmer supplied food for 15.5 persons. Now it is 2% directly involved in agriculture, yet the value of their production has skyrocketed and we export tons of products to other nations.



They use technology and better inputs and tools. Agronomists are used who specialize in things that the average farmer didn't understand, and feed specialists, and then obviously there are those who design and manufacture their equipment. Many farmers are retiring and people are managing much larger plots with fewer people but more machines. It's not like there are many unemployed farmers you hear about, their kids are in school either learning about how to make Deeres or Cases, or studying for professions and moving to cities.

Just because the amount of people directly doing something is lower doesn't mean that things are worse off... it just requires people to take up work in areas that supplement or enable progress to occur. (In manufacturing, CNC programming, CAM or CAD training, logistics, lean six-sigma quality specialist, design for manufacturing engineer, etc. etc.)

[scabzzzz]

The maniac likes to threadjack.

But in review, manufacturing is coming back to the states in spite of common misconceptions.

Although the value of manufacturing is still higher than any other countries, productivity has made less assemblers be required. However, there is a need in high tech American manufacturing for robot maintenance and controls, machine programmers, drafters, engineers, quality control managers, etc. (More so than just labor and supervisors because there aren't robots in China generally and no one cares much about quality on a $0.50 toy - as evidenced by lead paint on something going in a baby's mouth) US manufacturing makes sense when quality is important or things are complex or to be customized / low-batch.

As discussed here and other threads, many Americans are spoiled and upset that they don't get a cushy desk job and make $40K a year with good benefits because they showed up to class and got a piece of paper in the end. Many are "too good" for labor jobs that less stuck up immigrants will do. If they wanted to be a real part of the economy, they could:
a) not drop out of HS if they are in that pool
b) become a skilled technician (plumber, electrician) if they weren't cut out for college or didn't want to take on the debt
c) study something in college useful for the needs of American industry
d) create a business which provides something people need for a price they are willing to pay... and not just a worthless tech start-up "that's sorta like facebook or groupon"

There is room for growth in employment and the economy, but not with History majors who don't want to do anything 'below them'. It also is not your father's economy where everything is done by hand and you can rely on the mill for employment if you don't have an education. One more likely has to work with robotics, technology, and computers/the internet than twenty years ago. There will be growing demand for goods and services to the new middle class in India and China, as well as a great opportunity to solve challenges in Africa, or even reduce issues around you. Volunteering and helping someone up will help increase demand, without spending by credit and debt. But people actually need to become active and work, instead of complaining about how bad they see their situations as.

This still provides no answers or gives us any greater insight on the resolution of the problem.

Do you think BECAUSE of technology, our industries are so scattered? Do you think that once our fathers non-technologically minded generation retires for good (or dies off) that we/us will be running these businesses and things will be drastically different?

Seems like to me, technology has been our greatest accomplishment as a country, and our biggest thorn in the side too. And it happened all in a matter of 20 years for the most part. I see people in my firm (accounting firm, open for 58 years, started from nothing, 150+ employees) that run this place and I speak to them, and I help them with their technology and advise them, and they appear to be fucking morons. I can out think them nearly everytime, I learn things faster, and can do more work in a shorter amount of time. Why am I here, and why are they there?

[rwh11385]

The maniac likes to threadjack.

But in review, manufacturing is coming back to the states in spite of common misconceptions.

Although the value of manufacturing is still higher than any other countries, productivity has made less assemblers be required. However, there is a need in high tech American manufacturing for robot maintenance and controls, machine programmers, drafters, engineers, quality control managers, etc. (More so than just labor and supervisors because there aren't robots in China generally and no one cares much about quality on a $0.50 toy - as evidenced by lead paint on something going in a baby's mouth) US manufacturing makes sense when quality is important or things are complex or to be customized / low-batch.

As discussed here and other threads, many Americans are spoiled and upset that they don't get a cushy desk job and make $40K a year with good benefits because they showed up to class and got a piece of paper in the end. Many are "too good" for labor jobs that less stuck up immigrants will do. If they wanted to be a real part of the economy, they could:
a) not drop out of HS if they are in that pool
b) become a skilled technician (plumber, electrician) if they weren't cut out for college or didn't want to take on the debt
c) study something in college useful for the needs of American industry
d) create a business which provides something people need for a price they are willing to pay... and not just a worthless tech start-up "that's sorta like facebook or groupon"

There is room for growth in employment and the economy, but not with History majors who don't want to do anything 'below them'. It also is not your father's economy where everything is done by hand and you can rely on the mill for employment if you don't have an education. One more likely has to work with robotics, technology, and computers/the internet than twenty years ago. There will be growing demand for goods and services to the new middle class in India and China, as well as a great opportunity to solve challenges in Africa, or even reduce issues around you. Volunteering and helping someone up will help increase demand, without spending by credit and debt. But people actually need to become active and work, instead of complaining about how bad they see their situations as.

[Kershaw]

Meh, edited.

You win. ;)

cool beans, here you go.

[scabzzzz]

I know a shit load of people with Arts degrees in every flavor just like you guys and I can tell you, it aint the degree at fault. Its the person. In fact, just having A degree is enough to get you hired in a lot of entry level industries.

What the fuck are you guys even arguing about anyways? You're both making blanket statements unfairly!.

[joshh]

hate to break this to you, but my degree says Bachelor of Arts. not Bachelor of Fine arts, which is what an art degree is. i can understand your confusion between the two. and josh, im REALLY laughing at you. because i know you think a typical art degree (I WANNA BE A PAINTER) is even more worthless than a liberal arts degree.

case study and generalization? lol. i just said ALL of my colleagues, that's about 20 people i dont talk to and 4 that are good friends. that's a generalization, fwiw.

Jesus you're thick. An Art degree (what you have) is worth more than a Liberal Arts degree depending on what you studied. But like I said, all depends on what the college offers. What you have is not typically studied under Liberal Arts so stop defending it when you don't really apply to it.

[z31maniac]

Meh, edited.

You win. ;)

[Kershaw]

lol dude, keep digging yourself into a hole. when i say colleagues i mean the graphic designers that i graduated with. i definitely did not include the hundreds of other people in my graduating class. so no, im not including people with mathematics degrees in the list of my colleagues.

wait wait, i know. since you're failing a bit here, i'll help you out:

"kershaw, you and your colleagues must be amazing designers to be making more than the average graphic designer across america, even though i'm failing to realize that in MD everything costs more than OH and i'm demonstrating quite clearly the downfall of averages. so congrats!"
"wow z31maniac, thank you for that big compliment. i will design you some flowery bs so you can enjoy some designy flowery bs in your everday life!"

[z31maniac]

I have a BA as well.

If you want you can open LIberal Arts to include mathematics and all kinds of stuff. Don't play a semantical battle when you knew what I was getting at.

That's the problem, you guys get caught up with "Gotcha!" vs what the real discussion is.

[Kershaw]

hate to break this to you, but my degree says Bachelor of Arts. not Bachelor of Fine arts, which is what an art degree is. i can understand your confusion between the two. and josh, im REALLY laughing at you. because i know you think a typical art degree (I WANNA BE A PAINTER) is even more worthless than a liberal arts degree.

case study and generalization? lol. i just said ALL of my colleagues, that's about 20 people i dont talk to and 4 that are good friends. that's a generalization, fwiw.

[z31maniac]

dont be an absolute dumb ass. first, he was there and schooled you on what the OWS make up was. were you at one? he was. dont try to argue with second hand knowledge. second, i have a higher opinion of you than that. statements like this illustrate how biased and ignorant you can be.

all of my colleagues (we are graphic designers) make $45-60k. second job out of college.

A graphic designer who makes $60k is in the top 7-8th percentile of their profession......is hardly indicative of what all of them make.

I make $60k as a Tech Writer, but as someone with 4 years experience and being in OK, it's definitely not typical of my profession. Most would be in the $45k range.

Guess you never learned the difference between a case study and generalization either.

[joshh]

dont be an absolute dumb ass. first, he was there and schooled you on what the OWS make up was. were you at one? he was. dont try to argue with second hand knowledge. second, i have a higher opinion of you than that. statements like this illustrate how biased and ignorant you can be.

all of my colleagues (we are graphic designers) make $45-60k. second job out of college.

Boo fucking hoo. Most Liberal Arts degrees are worthless. Just because the college you went to had expanded into something it usually isn't means what exactly?
Hate to break this to you but that would be a typical Art degree not Liberal Arts.

[Kershaw]

The point is that those degrees are basically worthless, hence the unemployed kids demanding jobs and higher wages.

dont be an absolute dumb ass. first, he was there and schooled you on what the OWS make up was. were you at one? he was. dont try to argue with second hand knowledge. second, i have a higher opinion of you than that. statements like this illustrate how biased and ignorant you can be.

all of my colleagues (we are graphic designers) make $45-60k. second job out of college.

[mrmckie]

Not to mention how many turn down work they think is below them, remain unemployed and ask for handouts. Millions of Chinese every year migrate to big cities, they drop out of school for these factory jobs and then work extremely hard so their children don't have to go through it as well. Endless cycle that is not only being maintained but grows due to the wests demand for incredibly cheaply produced goods. No Americans are going to want these jobs, they already turn down MUCH better paying ones that are filled by illegals.

Same thing i was thinking. There are jobs out there and i hate to say it but many people in this country are too damn snoby. Take a look at how many immigrants are in the landscaping, agriculture/farm work, janitorial/sanitary and fastfood sectors. These people come to this country with nothing and bust their ass and in a couple years make a good living for themselves and their families. Many are too lazy to put in the work to get were they need/want to be.

Sheer greed is also why many jobs are outsourced, like customer service and data entry. I can tell you that about 1/3 of the jobs in my company has been outsource to one foreign country since i've been here. Companies have to pay too much to employees for benefits, salaries and get less production here which cut into "profits". you give them what they asked for and they still bitch and moan and go on strike. So it's a no brainer to outsource and employ 4 employees for the price of 1 in america. But really how much "money do you really need.

I see it this way, if Americans humble themselves and stop thinking a job is beneath them and STOP SPENDING WHAT YOU DONT HAVE...this country will be fine. I come from a foreign country and my family worked hard to get where we are and i have no problem scrubbing a toilet or cutting some elses grass. As long as i have a roof over my head and food in my stomach i'm happy and content. I have a full time job and a partime job and i work hard..better believe it..lol..

I guess "chamgne taste and beer money" as my mom says is the way of this country....sorry for the rant...:rofl:

[cale]

Not to mention how many turn down work they think is below them, remain unemployed and ask for handouts. Millions of Chinese every year migrate to big cities, they drop out of school for these factory jobs and then work extremely hard so their children don't have to go through it as well. Endless cycle that is not only being maintained but grows due to the wests demand for incredibly cheaply produced goods. No Americans are going to want these jobs, they already turn down MUCH better paying ones that are filled by illegals.