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    #31
    The maniac likes to threadjack.

    But in review, manufacturing is coming back to the states in spite of common misconceptions.

    Although the value of manufacturing is still higher than any other countries, productivity has made less assemblers be required. However, there is a need in high tech American manufacturing for robot maintenance and controls, machine programmers, drafters, engineers, quality control managers, etc. (More so than just labor and supervisors because there aren't robots in China generally and no one cares much about quality on a $0.50 toy - as evidenced by lead paint on something going in a baby's mouth) US manufacturing makes sense when quality is important or things are complex or to be customized / low-batch.

    As discussed here and other threads, many Americans are spoiled and upset that they don't get a cushy desk job and make $40K a year with good benefits because they showed up to class and got a piece of paper in the end. Many are "too good" for labor jobs that less stuck up immigrants will do. If they wanted to be a real part of the economy, they could:
    a) not drop out of HS if they are in that pool
    b) become a skilled technician (plumber, electrician) if they weren't cut out for college or didn't want to take on the debt
    c) study something in college useful for the needs of American industry
    d) create a business which provides something people need for a price they are willing to pay... and not just a worthless tech start-up "that's sorta like facebook or groupon"

    There is room for growth in employment and the economy, but not with History majors who don't want to do anything 'below them'. It also is not your father's economy where everything is done by hand and you can rely on the mill for employment if you don't have an education. One more likely has to work with robotics, technology, and computers/the internet than twenty years ago. There will be growing demand for goods and services to the new middle class in India and China, as well as a great opportunity to solve challenges in Africa, or even reduce issues around you. Volunteering and helping someone up will help increase demand, without spending by credit and debt. But people actually need to become active and work, instead of complaining about how bad they see their situations as.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by rwh11385 View Post
      The maniac likes to threadjack.

      But in review, manufacturing is coming back to the states in spite of common misconceptions.

      Although the value of manufacturing is still higher than any other countries, productivity has made less assemblers be required. However, there is a need in high tech American manufacturing for robot maintenance and controls, machine programmers, drafters, engineers, quality control managers, etc. (More so than just labor and supervisors because there aren't robots in China generally and no one cares much about quality on a $0.50 toy - as evidenced by lead paint on something going in a baby's mouth) US manufacturing makes sense when quality is important or things are complex or to be customized / low-batch.

      As discussed here and other threads, many Americans are spoiled and upset that they don't get a cushy desk job and make $40K a year with good benefits because they showed up to class and got a piece of paper in the end. Many are "too good" for labor jobs that less stuck up immigrants will do. If they wanted to be a real part of the economy, they could:
      a) not drop out of HS if they are in that pool
      b) become a skilled technician (plumber, electrician) if they weren't cut out for college or didn't want to take on the debt
      c) study something in college useful for the needs of American industry
      d) create a business which provides something people need for a price they are willing to pay... and not just a worthless tech start-up "that's sorta like facebook or groupon"

      There is room for growth in employment and the economy, but not with History majors who don't want to do anything 'below them'. It also is not your father's economy where everything is done by hand and you can rely on the mill for employment if you don't have an education. One more likely has to work with robotics, technology, and computers/the internet than twenty years ago. There will be growing demand for goods and services to the new middle class in India and China, as well as a great opportunity to solve challenges in Africa, or even reduce issues around you. Volunteering and helping someone up will help increase demand, without spending by credit and debt. But people actually need to become active and work, instead of complaining about how bad they see their situations as.
      This still provides no answers or gives us any greater insight on the resolution of the problem.

      Do you think BECAUSE of technology, our industries are so scattered? Do you think that once our fathers non-technologically minded generation retires for good (or dies off) that we/us will be running these businesses and things will be drastically different?

      Seems like to me, technology has been our greatest accomplishment as a country, and our biggest thorn in the side too. And it happened all in a matter of 20 years for the most part. I see people in my firm (accounting firm, open for 58 years, started from nothing, 150+ employees) that run this place and I speak to them, and I help them with their technology and advise them, and they appear to be fucking morons. I can out think them nearly everytime, I learn things faster, and can do more work in a shorter amount of time. Why am I here, and why are they there?

      Comment


        #33
        How hard is it to read, basically, "don't rely on being an assembler"? And become helpful in what is in demand of the modern American economy?

        Think about how many people used to be farmers. In 1900, nearly 40% of our population were farmers. In 1950s, it was 12.2% and each farmer supplied food for 15.5 persons. Now it is 2% directly involved in agriculture, yet the value of their production has skyrocketed and we export tons of products to other nations.



        They use technology and better inputs and tools. Agronomists are used who specialize in things that the average farmer didn't understand, and feed specialists, and then obviously there are those who design and manufacture their equipment. Many farmers are retiring and people are managing much larger plots with fewer people but more machines. It's not like there are many unemployed farmers you hear about, their kids are in school either learning about how to make Deeres or Cases, or studying for professions and moving to cities.

        Just because the amount of people directly doing something is lower doesn't mean that things are worse off... it just requires people to take up work in areas that supplement or enable progress to occur. (In manufacturing, CNC programming, CAM or CAD training, logistics, lean six-sigma quality specialist, design for manufacturing engineer, etc. etc.)
        Last edited by rwh11385; 01-24-2012, 01:46 PM.

        Comment


          #34
          And does anyone miss waking up at 4am and milking the cows? Sure, some people love it and won't leave it, and some professional farmers rake in a crazy amount of money. (And yes, some hipsters are farming organic - www.wwoof.org can give a trial of that) Likewise, some artists will remain in high-end manufacturing of furniture, or making crafts on Etsy... but I see the trend of fewer working class assemblers and more highly skilled / trained persons in manufacturing - just like how farming evolved. When you want into a plant, do you see many young people? Or mostly middle-aged or older? (I've seen a lot of plants and the older technology ones were slim on young people and most seem ready to retire in the coming 15 years... and do you see Gen Y replacing them?)

          I think a misconception is American moving to a service economy means customer service, financial advisors, and other fluffy jobs. I believe technical services are included in those since they are involved with but not directly creating goods. (Engineers, IT, etc.)

          With technology, the opportunities are changing - it's a great accomplishment but shifts the demand for certain educations or experiences. (And just because you learn X doesn't mean you can't do Y... a friend studied poli sci but programmed a financial investing program then made a company and sold it, and then became CTO of a logistics firm...) Experience is a key thing that people need, not just graduating with a degree but no work history. Technology has obviously made jobs at Google and Facebook, but I think there is a great potential for smarter data analysis (business intelligence like at IBM) which is vital since we have so much. Also, we still have cancer to cure and need scientists for that, as well as how to solve other health problems with doctors / medical research.

          The thorn seems to snag those who don't evolve. The fortunate aspect is people enter and leave the economy as new ones are born and grow up while others retire. (Allowing individuals who are misaligned with needs to exit in time, but sometimes drastic cuts in need or shift causes despair) Whatever the demand/need, our Millennial generation has to step up to the plate and do what needs to be done. And not just expect a pat on the back and job well done because we got participation trophies all our lives.

          Comment


            #35
            You can still make great money the old fashion way too.

            I am living proof of that.
            Originally posted by Fusion
            If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
            The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


            The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

            Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
            William Pitt-

            Comment


              #36
              how much longer will your body sustain you crawling around in pipes? (that's what you do, right?) do you have a plan for after 50?
              AWD > RWD

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Kershaw View Post
                how much longer will your body sustain you crawling around in pipes? (that's what you do, right?) do you have a plan for after 50?
                well for 1 I should be mostly retired by then, or in a position of more responsibility and over sight than field work by then. Fuck I could cut back to 5-6 months a year and still be just fine right now. I EARN a very comfortable living, and get to take several months a year off mostly at my discretion. But there is a catch......................

                2 My job is not really that hard on the body (what I used to do was much much harder on the body) I dont have to crawl in too often and that makes my job easier most of the time. The Ocuatards would consider it harder than what they want to do, and below them though. But too me, and how I was raised most days its a walk in the park.

                3 I know and was mentored into this business by 2 guys one of which is 64 now, and the other came back out of 6 years of retirement, just because he wanted to go back to work for a while, he was 70, and put 3 more 3100 hour years in for the hell of it. Its not a body killer, but it will give you more aches than sitting in a cubical for 30 years, but on the flip side it keeps you in pretty good shape.
                Last edited by mrsleeve; 01-24-2012, 04:14 PM.
                Originally posted by Fusion
                If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                William Pitt-

                Comment


                  #38
                  i hate sitting in my cubical..lol
                  "I came into this world, not chiefly to make this a good place to live in, but to live in it, be it good or bad" -Henry Thoreau-
                  1991 318is - the cruiser
                  1989 325i - the rats nest

                  Comment


                    #39
                    yep. i like my job because it's a nice blend between design and working with my hands. i was hired as a designer/printer, but i quickly demonstrated that i'm very mechanically inclined. so, i build and install a lot of the signs i design. now i basically run the shop. haha. the owner is going to be so upset when i leave. which i'll be doing sometime this year.
                    AWD > RWD

                    Comment


                      #40
                      ^ And that actually leads me to think that in the future we may see more small/one person "manufacturers". Groups of people that are able to create things in a very specific niche. A technician may spend time assembling and a designer painting, but they'll be proud of their creation.
                      The price of precision machinery and things you thought you'd only see in huge manf. company are going down year by year. Just like barely anyone could print quality photos 20y ago, today you do it yourself. Proof being not only Makerbots, but even aerospace transitioning from goverment projects into private ventures, and small team car manufacturers.

                      I think we'll be seeing the decline of huge manufacturers aimed at a small series of high quantity products, and the uprise of thousands of tiny ones, each making special low quantity products while being able to quickly and cheaply diversify and customize their product range. Of course each company will need atleast one engineer and probably a designer, so unemployment in the sector won't be hurt, but could actually benefit from it.
                      Last edited by Fusion; 01-24-2012, 05:37 PM.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Fusion View Post
                        ^ And that actually leads me to think that in the future we may see more small/one person "manufacturers". Groups of people that are able to create things in a very specific niche.
                        The price of precision machinery and things you thought you'd only see in huge manf. company are going down year by year. Just like barely anyone could print quality photos 20y ago, today you do it yourself. Proof being not only Makerbots, but even aerospace transitioning from goverment projects into private ventures, and small team car manufacturers.

                        I think we'll be seeing the decline of huge manufacturers aimed at a small series of high quantity products, and the uprise of thousands of tiny ones, each making special low quantity products while being able to quickly and cheaply diversify and customize their product range. Of course each company will need atleast one engineer and probably a designer, so unemployment in the sector won't be hurt, but could actually benefit from it.
                        I'm especially excited about companies like this:
                        Local Motors were known for their open-source motor vehicle designs, their cutting-edge expertise in 3D-printing cars, and their impressive self-driving vehicle technology.




                        As much as I laugh most of time at 'crowdsourcing', this is awesome. People contribute design ideas and collaborate. You help build your own vehicle in 'micro-factories' and can customize then modify, all while utilizing the supply chain of major automotive OEM and 3-D printing / rapid prototyping for custom pieces.

                        Youtube about How it Works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azCRuwtE_n0

                        Starts @ 13:15 from Top Gear America - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_LlO1pd_TM
                        Last edited by rwh11385; 01-24-2012, 05:55 PM.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          ^ That is AWESOME and exactly what I mean.

                          Oh and don't forget that even though the iPhone was assembled in China, there are tons of small companies selling US made accessories and employ lots of people.
                          Just look at what people have thought of on Kickstarter, and I think most of the manf. for those products stays stateside.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            i do believe i've never seen honda civic taillights look so good.
                            AWD > RWD

                            Comment


                              #44
                              ^

                              On that we do agree
                              Originally posted by Fusion
                              If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                              The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                              The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                              Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                              William Pitt-

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Kershaw View Post
                                i quickly demonstrated that i'm very mechanically inclined.

                                Hey I dont mean to bust your balls here but this is the same Kershaw that posted about not being able to hit a nail with a hammer and just had his car catch on fire due to lack of maintenance? Not counting other cars if I remember correctly.


                                Im laughing with ya, not at ya :)
                                Build your own dreams, or someone else will hire you to build theirs!

                                Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.

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