i honestly believe that when a company's profits skyrocket, people should get bonus'

[BraveUlysses]

There are much less moral hazard when successful CEOs are compensated handsomely

The biggest moral hazard for the US is crony capitalism--mostly through the banking and finance industries who ultimately continue to abuse the public by using publicizing risks but privatizing profits.

Even equal opportunity doesn't really hold up to criticism. No two schools are alike, no two cultures are alike. Everybody has different opportunities.

Duh, but we need to ensure our legal and political systems do not encourage bullshit like "separate but equal."

[nando]

I'm glad I work for a fairly small, employee owned corporation. There are drawbacks, but essentially nobody makes 100x more than anyone else (not even the CEO), and we do get a profit bonus. the rest of the profits get driven back into the business and into employee stock. I've already got about $50,000 of real (not promised) retirement money and I've only been here 5 years.

[LBJefferies]

There are much less moral hazard when successful CEOs are compensated handsomely

The biggest moral hazard for the US is crony capitalism--mostly through the banking and finance industries who ultimately continue to abuse the public by using publicizing risks but privatizing profits.



Duh, but we need to ensure our legal and political systems do not encourage bullshit like "separate but equal."

You're absolutely right. I think people take it a step further though.

Take women's pay for example. I am CONSTANTLY hearing statistics about women making less money on average than men. I believe that these statistics are true. What people are ignoring are the statistics which show that men make up 95% of workplace deaths, or women take far more sick days and maternity leave days than men. These all contribute to your compensation. If we start altering compensation to make it more "equal", it will do more harm than good. There is a reason that compensation is different between the sexes, and it isn't sexism, it's economics.

[BraveUlysses]

You're absolutely right. I think people take it a step further though.

Take women's pay for example. I am CONSTANTLY hearing statistics about women making less money on average than men. I believe that these statistics are true. What people are ignoring are the statistics which show that men make up 95% of workplace deaths, or women take far more sick days and maternity leave days than men. These all contribute to your compensation. If we start altering compensation to make it more "equal", it will do more harm than good. There is a reason that compensation is different between the sexes, and it isn't sexism, it's economics.

True, however such comparisons should really be made within a particular field or job title--it makes no sense to put every male and every female into one pool or the other and then derive statistics from it.

I would image that over a lifetime, on average, a highly professional woman (doctor, lawyer, ect) would probably take about the same time time off as a man would.

[z31maniac]

I'm glad I work for a fairly small, employee owned corporation. There are drawbacks, but essentially nobody makes 100x more than anyone else (not even the CEO), and we do get a profit bonus. the rest of the profits get driven back into the business and into employee stock. I've already got about $50,000 of real (not promised) retirement money and I've only been here 5 years.

I will admit to very good health insurance and other benefits..............more just illustrating the type of stuff that pisses a lot of people off.

[herbivor]

can you name any other economic system in world history that has not had extreme income inequality?
todays most extreme examples are quasi socialistic/statist economies, like north korea and china, exactly the economic models that are supposed to prevent such a thing from happening

Perhaps you didn't read all the charts in the posted article. One of them showed the GINI coefficient which is a measure of income inequality in each country. We were ranked 93rd, below Iran, above Mexico. Sweden was number one, followed by Norway. In fact, if you ever read the statistics from either of those two countries, they are impressive. They are ranked amongst the happiest countries in the world, which I personally think is the best indicator of a government's success. They are democratic socialist countries that are doing quite well in nearly every comparison to the US; education, healthcare, social welfare, crime, etc. Seriously, read a little bit about the Scandinavian governments and some of their history and challenges they overcame. They do impress.

[CorvallisBMW]

You're absolutely right. I think people take it a step further though.

Take women's pay for example. I am CONSTANTLY hearing statistics about women making less money on average than men. I believe that these statistics are true. What people are ignoring are the statistics which show that men make up 95% of workplace deaths, or women take far more sick days and maternity leave days than men. These all contribute to your compensation. If we start altering compensation to make it more "equal", it will do more harm than good. There is a reason that compensation is different between the sexes, and it isn't sexism, it's economics.

You seem to be misunderstanding those studies & statistics. When the results are published they're always normalized, i.e. Pay per hour of equivalent work. Sick days, maternity leave, etc. are removed from the equation when normalized. And workplace deaths have no bearing for the same reason: all data is normalized for identical jobs.

Bottom line is that a women, sitting next to a man, doing the exact same work with the same amount of experience, hours/week, performance, etc makes significantly less. That's not right.

[nando]

higher risk = higher reward

he has a point.

[EyExR]

I believe a good business owner should empower their staff for the betterment of the company. This typically comes in the form of higher salaries, bonuses or promotions. But employee compensation really depends on the job market and how many other workers possess equal or better skills. We don't really live in a world where "doing the right thing" exists. So it's rare that you hear things like "Joe is our hardest working employee. He's been here for over 10 years and has a family to support. Maybe we should give him a nice bonus this year...". You will get paid more money only if the job market dictates it. And you've got to be ready to pick up, pack up, and move the hell on. If your employer keeps serving you shit, and you keep eating it - is the employer REALLY the one to blame???

My advice would be to know how money works. Invest wisely. Work smart - not hard. And for God's sake, don't waste your money on school unless you want to be a doctor, a lawyer, or some other REAL profession. Simply going to school to get a degree is just about the stupidist thing anyone can do, IMHO...

[z31maniac]

You seem to be misunderstanding those studies & statistics. When the results are published they're always normalized, i.e. Pay per hour of equivalent work. Sick days, maternity leave, etc. are removed from the equation when normalized. And workplace deaths have no bearing for the same reason: all data is normalized for identical jobs.

Bottom line is that a women, sitting next to a man, doing the exact same work with the same amount of experience, hours/week, performance, etc makes significantly less. That's not right.

Agreed.

But you know what's really funny?

Look at pay disparities for men and women, regarding House of Rep and Senator staffers pay. It's much worse on the Dem side.

I guess they have to push for a fair pay law because they won't do it on their own?

[mrsleeve]

I believe a good business owner should empower their staff for the betterment of the company. This typically comes in the form of higher salaries, bonuses or promotions. But employee compensation really depends on the job market and how many other workers possess equal or better skills. We don't really live in a world where "doing the right thing" exists. So it's rare that you hear things like "Joe is our hardest working employee. He's been here for over 10 years and has a family to support. Maybe we should give him a nice bonus this year...". You will get paid more money only if the job market dictates it. And you've got to be ready to pick up, pack up, and move the hell on. If your employer keeps serving you shit, and you keep eating it - is the employer REALLY the one to blame???

...

I work for a smaller family business, my bosses are a rarity, they keep me busy when I want or need to be even if there really is nothing really good to send me out on and its costs them money to help me out. Also on the flip side if I am home after a long stint out I get 1st dibs on work, and can turn it down with no issues most of the so long as we have guys to cover the work. Bonus's lol no, we dont get those, but I dont have to worry about my heath coverage going bye bye when I am off for a couple of months, I also have a good retirement package and treated as much as family.

I am lucky to work for the people I do, but I also make them a ton of money.

[gwb72tii]

Perhaps you didn't read all the charts in the posted article. One of them showed the GINI coefficient which is a measure of income inequality in each country. We were ranked 93rd, below Iran, above Mexico. Sweden was number one, followed by Norway. In fact, if you ever read the statistics from either of those two countries, they are impressive. They are ranked amongst the happiest countries in the world, which I personally think is the best indicator of a government's success. They are democratic socialist countries that are doing quite well in nearly every comparison to the US; education, healthcare, social welfare, crime, etc. Seriously, read a little bit about the Scandinavian governments and some of their history and challenges they overcame. They do impress.

well, my direct experience is relatives who live in denmark. he's an airline pilot, makes a decent wage, probably immune in some ways to the higher taxes and such. he is very unhappy with the tax load, the govt assessing a 100% tax on anything but a micro-car (he gets to drive my e92 when he visits), and the overall intrusion of gov't into his life. he tells me that it is a common attitude among the younger people in denmark.

[2761377]

Fair is a word made up by children to taunt their parents. As best I recollect Jeff Cooper.

and those that believe 'fairness' should be the goal of government are fools who live in 'condition white'.

[LBJefferies]

Y
Bottom line is that a women, sitting next to a man, doing the exact same work with the same amount of experience, hours/week, performance, etc makes significantly less. That's not right.

Sorry but this is just plain wrong. You may find a disparity between a man and a woman working for different companies, but that disparity can exist between two men as well. If every variable is the same, men and women are paid exactly the same. Show me one case where they aren't the same and you have gender discrimination which is in fact illegal. Really though, like I was saying in my first post about the so called wealth gap, you can't quantify wealth and put it into some statistics. The same can be said for compensation. You can't equalize every variable like you say has been done.

Hell, I know this is controversial but I think it should be said, maybe men and women are skilled at different things. Maybe the productivity of women is less than men in certain jobs. And likewise maybe the productivity of men is less than women in other jobs. Or maybe it's just a coincidence. When you compile statistics there is always going to be some sort of disparity between separate groups. One gender HAS to make more than the other and it just so happens that the statistics say it is men.

My whole point is that economics dictates everything. Racism, sexism, classism, etc. all take a backseat to money when it comes to dictating the way society works. That's where this whole thread started.

[mrsleeve]

we have women that work for us at times, and they make the exactly the same thing I do down to the penny. We are hourly so at the end of the week it all comes down to how many hours we get to put in