No one interested in the new developments with Fast and Furious?

[mrsleeve]

^

Yes well an FFL can refuse a sale that seems suspicions and all the guys I know would refuse 20k in transactions to people like that all at once.

You cant just buy all you want all at once.

It was way more than 6 hand guns, there was all kinds of shit that the ATF forced the FFLs to sell to know red flags under the pretense that they would lose their FFL if they didnt play ball.

How are you enjoying your FOID card, and why the fuck should I have to wait to buy my gun when I am a law abiding citizen and have the means to afford them.

[turge]

Turge, this was in Arizona, not California. Have you even researched this? There were a total of 6 (six) guns that were purposely given to one of the young street racing kids this operation was named after knowing he would in turn sell them to the cartel. Why did they do this? Per the federal justices in Arizona, the ATF needed better proof that these guns were being sold with the intent to harm another if they were to be given permission to prosecute anyone. There is no waiting period in AZ, just be 18 or older and pass an on-site background check. You can purchase as many guns as you want, many of these youngsters forking over $20,000. They are then legally allowed to resell those guns to whomever they want. None of this is illegal whatsoever - unless the ATF could prove to the satisfaction of these justices that the intent was to do harm. The ATF had no teeth so they got desperate and set up the sting involving 6 handguns.

:loco: :loco:

Dude, I've done research on the topic, I don't think you have. Not all of the documents have been released you know. Ever hear about that border patrol agent who was killed by the cartels from weapons the ATF freely handed them? Try several AK-47's and other assault weapons that were traced back to this operation along with numerous weapons found in killings from the cartels in Mexico.

Here's some information on it btw, I suggest you bring yourself up to date:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/12/16/143840097/family-of-agent-killed-by-fast-and-furious-rifle-demands-accountability

Also, I believe that it is your god given right in this country to own any type of firearm you want as long as you are a law abiding citizen. Look at FPSRussia and his arsenal. He's ready for the Zombie Apocalypse. There are obvious people that shouldn't own guns and that's why there are laws in place. But Holder was just plain stupid and let the operation continue even though the ATF told him it was a bad idea especially since the operation was failing miserably.

And I only brought up California since it is one of the stricter states when it comes to gun laws. The laws are plain stupid too.

[Morrison]

Okay, I'll use info quoted directly from your first link to support my earlier post:

"However, other accounts of the operation insist that ATF agents were prevented from intervening not by ATF officials, but rather by federal prosecutors with the Attorney General's office, who were unsure of whether the agents had sufficient evidence to arrest suspected straw-buyers.[19]"

&

"On June 1st, 2010, Dodson used $2,500 of ATF funds to purchase six AK Draco pistols from local gun dealers, which he then gave to Mr. Fernandez, who reimbursed him for the expense of the guns, plus $700 for his assistance."

I also learned in that article that the most prolific of the straw purchasers bought over 600 guns altogether. Does the average good little American citizen really need that many to protect his liberty? You've only got two hands, so assuming one gun per hand, then two is the most you could ever make use of at one time. How about a law limiting the amount you can own to 2 of each type of firearm. For example you can have two AK's, two shotguns, two rifles, two pistols, etc.

I don't know what a FOID card is and am too lazy to google it. I'm guessing it probably doesn't affect me since I don't tie up any of my money in a tool which I don't feel I'm ever likely to need. Sort of like how many Americans don't think they'll ever need health insurance and consider it a waste of money.

[ficklerx]

New facts are still coming to light—and will likely continue to do so with the Justice Department inspector general's report expected in coming months. Among the discoveries: Fast and Furious' top suspects—Sinaloa Cartel operatives and Mexican nationals who were providing the money, ordering the guns, and directing the recruitment of the straw purchasers—turned out to be FBI informants who were receiving money from the bureau. That came as news to the ATF agents in Group VII.

This leads to a possible reason why feds were not prosecuting the cases. Why would the FBI provide the funds if someone or something did not want the purchasing to be successful?

1. The FBI provides the funds to 'create' a problem.
2. Direct dealers to allow sales as it is part of an investigation.
3. Hinder ATF from doing its job by the feds refusing to prosecute.
4. Package the whole thing as an inadequate legislation problem.
5. Add your own conclusions.

[Vedubin01]

This leads to a possible reason why feds were not prosecuting the cases. Why would the FBI provide the funds if someone or something did not want the purchasing to be successful?

1. The FBI provides the funds to 'create' a problem.
2. Direct dealers to allow sales as it is part of an investigation.
3. Hinder ATF from doing its job by the feds refusing to prosecute.
4. Package the whole thing as an inadequate legislation problem.
5. Add your own conclusions.

Administration officials intentionally put guns into the hands of Mexican drug cartels, so that when the guns taken from Mexican crime scenes turned out to be American guns, Democrats would have a reason to crack down on gun sellers in the United States.

[Morrison]

You must have seen the NRA infomercial on TV yesterday too eh? If so, then you know this upcoming election is the most important one in your lifetime. This is also a great time to join the NRA and get a stylish complimentary duffel bag. Are you, "All In" ?

[Farbin Kaiber]

"Hey, you can only own 2 TV's, 2 computers, 2 bedroom houses, because you could never use more than 2 at one time!"

[Morrison]

Noah could only bring two of each animal onto his boat. It's tough all over.

[BraveUlysses]

Administration officials intentionally put guns into the hands of Mexican drug cartels, so that when the guns taken from Mexican crime scenes turned out to be American guns, Democrats would have a reason to crack down on gun sellers in the United States.

Finally, those who are absolutely convinced that Obama is gonna take their guns have managed to imagine a conspiracy that makes absolutely no sense at all.

[Vedubin01]

Finally, those who are absolutely convinced that Obama is gonna take their guns have managed to imagine a conspiracy that makes absolutely no sense at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBjAgQ12GY8

;)

[jw 325ic]

Finally, those who are absolutely convinced that Obama is gonna take their guns have managed to imagine a conspiracy that makes absolutely no sense at all.

Another ignorant comment from someone swinging from Obamas sac. If you cant connect the dots on how this could affect gun ownership, then you just shouldnt post here...

[BraveUlysses]

Another ignorant comment from someone swinging from Obamas sac. If you cant connect the dots on how this could affect gun ownership, then you just shouldnt post here...

I don't like Obama; I didn't vote for him the first time and I won't this time either.

That said, no, this is called "making shit up to fit the narrative I want to see". You want to reach the conclusion that "Obama is gonna take your guns!" and use a huuuuge logical leap to make it from F&F to that conclusion.

There is zero evidence to reach the conclusion that you're reaching for. Emphasis on reaching.

Issa loves fanning the flames on this shit and you eat it from the trough:

“We have e-mail from people involved in this that are talking about using what they’re finding here to support the — basically assault weapons ban or greater reporting,” Mr. Issa, the chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said on ABC’s “This Week.”

On Tuesday, Representative Steny H. Hoyer, Democrat of Maryland and the House minority whip, challenged Mr. Issa to prove it.

“If he has those documents, he should show them,” Mr. Hoyer said.

If this email existed it would absolutely sink Obama's re-election--but where is it? Oh, probably somewhere in the political theatrics storage locker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBjAgQ12GY8

;)

If I wanted to talk to joshh i would take him off my ignore list; maybe I'm expecting too much from you?

[Quadrajet]

The strange thing is I believe most of the M16's have been coming from or used by Mexican Army troops who are on the "take" from the cartels or deserters. How do I know this? The restrictions on class3 firearms here in the States baically let's me know that M16A2's didn't "migrate" across the border, they were either purchased by the Mexican Gov't or were supplied as military aid. That can be said for all select fire weapons that may be "found" at crime scenes. For that matter seeing how the world market on AK's is flooded and can be had cheap(select fire) it makes absolutely no sense for anyone to purchase semi auto only AK's here. They can be bought overseas in bulk and shipped or smuggled into Mexico much cheaper.

[mrsleeve]

^

And thats what these people really dont seem to understand and I have pointed out several times in previous threads

[jw 325ic]

I don't like Obama; I didn't vote for him the first time and I won't this time either.

That said, no, this is called "making shit up to fit the narrative I want to see". You want to reach the conclusion that "Obama is gonna take your guns!" and use a huuuuge logical leap to make it from F&F to that conclusion.

There is zero evidence to reach the conclusion that you're reaching for. Emphasis on reaching.

You dont think outside the box or long term, do you?