Is there a god?

[LBJefferies]

I could argue all day about religious belief, morality and politics because I think you can really form some practical beliefs which help you through life. Essentially, you can find some personal truths and tear down other peoples bullshit beliefs with which they try to influence others with.

The god question on the other hand, is totally fruitless. Even science has more or less given up on it. Through quantum mechanics, we know that particles behave randomly and literally pop in and out of existence. This could go both ways, the randomness can show that there is no god, or it can show that there is a god. We will never know which one it is.

[OniKyan]

There is nothing wrong with discussing this topic again. After all, it is the Politics and Religion sub forum.

I like the cosmological argument for the existence of god. Basically, something had to have set the universe in motion, and whatever that mechanism is can be called god.

My problem lies with religion. Religion teaches people to not think for themselves and follow blindly. Religion teaches people that the material world doesn't matter, only some immaterial realm with which we don't have any evidence for is what matters. Religion teaches people to pray, and thus only make themselves feel better, instead of offer some sort of actual assistance. Religion teaches people to not take control and responsibility of their lives, let god take care of it. Religion teaches people that you shouldn't give yourself or others credit for good things that happen, god must have done them. Believe it or not, the message that religious folk hold so highly and preach from their soap boxes, is actually a bad one.

This x 1,000,000.

Whether, or not everything was created by some kind of higher power, force, being etc can not be proven, nor disproved.

Religion, however is completely ridiculous. Religion claims to have answers but in reality, it does not.

[WhyNot]

My problem lies with religion.

+1
God isnt religious.

religion is basically like two kid arguing in the school yard..."my god can kick your god's ass"

the human condition will always be screwed because thats what and who we are....screwed up entities...

and i think the proof of your belief of a god isnt saying 'kill those f**kers over there because they dont believe what we believe' but rather by your actions as you try to be like your god is.

and using our minds to understand this...its like using your little pinky toe to see where you are driving...kinda doesnt work no matter how you try

man manipulates man in lots of ways and religion is just one. i think we have an internal belief [or hope] that there is 'something' out there.

how did you show others about your god today?

[Cliche Guevara]

So you are saying that there was a beginning? It doesn't matter if there was no space and time before the existence of the universe, this doesn't show that there cannot be a mechanism. In fact, if it is true that there was nothing before, and now there is something, then you are actually arguing in favor of a mechanism.

That's simply an argument for a mechanism, not a god. Scientifically speaking, there is absolutely nothing wrong with attributing the cause of the big bang to some sort of mechanism, be it the collision of the p-branes of two other universes or whatever. That is testable, confirmable, falsifiable. A supernatural being is not. What's more, in stating that said mechanism is a god you are essentially saying that because you and everyone alive today cannot definitively answer the question of what happened before the big bang nobody will ever be able to ever answer that question. It's an incredibly hubristic statement to make. It falls back on the old god of the gaps argument, and historically that god has only grown smaller and smaller.

Also, there is fairly new science which theorizes that new universes are made inside of black holes.

That falls much more in the realm of a hypotheses than a theory.

Also, the universe could have itself been the mechanism and could have set itself into motion. You know how they say god is everywhere? God = the universe.

That just sounds like the ramblings of someone who just smoked a shitload of dank weed lol.

[Chrispy]

citing a book as evidence of god is about as credible as greek mythology and zeus

citing a miracle as evidence of god is about as credible as a sighting of bigfoot and the loch ness monster

there is nothing wrong with citing religion as a sort of personal spirituality that fulfills you in a way that you become a better person in a functional society. but institutionalized religion that sets doctrines, policies, rules with penalties, exclusions, and legitimized discrimination under the guise of religious freedom are a bane on the human existence that needs to be eradicated like a parasite, a disease, a cancer on our collective development and progression as a society

[Vivek]

Religious threads are where I got my sig from

Umm...no its not?

[LBJefferies]

That's simply an argument for a mechanism, not a god. Scientifically speaking, there is absolutely nothing wrong with attributing the cause of the big bang to some sort of mechanism, be it the collision of the p-branes of two other universes or whatever. That is testable, confirmable, falsifiable. A supernatural being is not. What's more, in stating that said mechanism is a god you are essentially saying that because you and everyone alive today cannot definitively answer the question of what happened before the big bang nobody will ever be able to ever answer that question. It's an incredibly hubristic statement to make. It falls back on the old god of the gaps argument, and historically that god has only grown smaller and smaller.

I defined what god was in my argument, that he is a mechanism, and you chose to use the supernatural god in your criticism of my argument knowing full well what I defined god as. If you want to argue about the supernatural god then do it with someone else because you will have no beef with me there.

That falls much more in the realm of a hypotheses than a theory.

The math predicts it and math has been pretty damn reliable at predicting things. Ask Einstein.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/04/100409-black-holes-alternate-universe-multiverse-einstein-wormholes/

That just sounds like the ramblings of someone who just smoked a shitload of dank weed.

First, stop with the ad hominem. Second, it is not unreasonable to describe god as the universe itself and the laws which govern it. Third, if you personally believe that there is no god, or no mechanism, then wouldn't your only remaining choice be to believe that the universe just set itself into motion?



Maybe you should have defined god in your OP? You should probably do it now before anybody goes any further. My college professor did it in the syllabus, just sayin.

[Massimo]

The time before the big bang could have existed on another plane, or a dimension we and our science cannot perceive.

This is why I believe in both.

Evolution and some sort of God not a religion.

The math predicts it and math has been pretty damn reliable at predicting things. Ask Einstein.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ein-wormholes/

Didn't they prove he was wrong? lol

[Cliche Guevara]

I defined what god was in my argument, that he is a mechanism, and you chose to use the supernatural god in your criticism of my argument knowing full well what I defined god as. If you want to argue about the supernatural god then do it with someone else because you will have no beef with me there.

You define it however you want, the concept of god is inherently supernatural. That should simply be a given. If you think god is some vague, natural mechanism then I think that's simply a poor choice of words.

The math predicts it and math has been pretty damn reliable at predicting things. Ask Einstein.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ein-wormholes/

I'm familiar with the idea. It's a relatively new theory that still has a long way to go if it wants to supercede relativity, which has been around for around 100 years. It's certainly interesting and deserves the attention of those smart enough to understand that sort of thing, but I'll remain skeptical until a scientific consensus has been reached.

In a purely philosophical context, I'm a fan of the idea of a multiverse. It lines up perfectly with our historical understanding of the world around us. We used to think the Earth was flat and that it was all there was out there. Then we learned that we were part of a solar system and after that we discovered that our sun wasn't inique and that every one of those little dots in the sky was a star just like our sun. Then around the middle of the 20th century Edwin Hubble discovered that we were a part of a galaxy, a galaxy that is just one among hundreds of billions of others. Just looking at the precedent of scientific discovery, it is reasonable to assert that, just as our solar system and galaxy are not unique, neither is our universe. I do love learning about this sort of thing :)

First, stop with the ad hominem. Second, it is not unreasonable to describe god as the universe itself and the laws which govern it.

Sorry, it was a poorly framed joke ;)

[slaterd]

Umm...no its not?

Um...yeah it is?

[LBJefferies]

You define it however you want, but the concept of god is inherently supernatural. That should simply be a given. If you think god is some vague, natural mechanism then I think that's simply a poor choice of words.

Defining god is an inherent problem within philosophy of religion. It is seriously pointless to say "god is so and so" and then have an argument about it. You can't define god, period. This is why I said earlier that the god question is entirely fruitless. I mean, I suppose we could define god as the supernatural god of abrahamic religion, but we all know that doesn't hold up to much scrutiny. Hence, the pointlessness of it all. We might as well argue about the existence of Santa Claus.

Can we tear apart morality instead? Or how about liberals?

[CHIF8008]

Yes, there is a God- the One and Only Creator. If you cant see that from looking around, then there is something you are seriously missing you guys.

Because of corruption, there have been "religions" formed that do nothing but drag Gods name in the mud. This is the simple truth that many fail to realize- God wants a relationship with you. nothing more, nothing less. If you don't want that relationship then you have chosen your fate. it always has been about a choice- your choice.

[Cliche Guevara]

Defining god is an inherent problem within philosophy of religion. It is seriously pointless to say "god is so and so" and then have an argument about it. You can't define god, period. This is why I said earlier that the god question is entirely fruitless. I mean, I suppose we could define god as the supernatural god of abrahamic religion, but we all know that doesn't hold up to much scrutiny. Hence, the pointlessness of it all. We might as well argue about the existence of Santa Claus.

Yes. For sake of being able to make concise posts that is what we are doing in this thread. You can be needlessly philosophical and discuss what a god could be, but this thread is for discussing the possibility of a supernatural being. Considering that's what just about everyone thinks of when you bring up the idea of a god I assumed it would be perfectly acceptable to refine my diction and simply use the term "god" rather than "supernatural being." I deemed the more lengthy term needlessly verbose, but I guess that wasn't the case.

So from here on out it will be safe to assume that "god" refers solely to a supernatural being. That was, after all, the purpose of the thread.


edit @CHIF8008: Where is the evidence for said god?

[CHIF8008]

you really think all of this just Poofed here?


even from a scientific view there is no way that any of this could have just "evolved". how is a tree living? how does an ant know how to survive? how were you even given life? your soul? God gave life, God made and designed every detail of everything before it was ever made. Everything has His fingerprints all over it

[LBJefferies]

you really think all of this just Poofed here?

Ok and where did god poof from then?