When CCW saves peoples lives thread.

[cale]

just watched the vid myself, and I have a different reaction. That 71 year old is one BAMF. the perps got exactly what they deserved, the crap scared out of them, then arrested.

I don't see where you are saying that the dude was shooting at the perp while he was face down on the ground. I saw him fall, and then scramble back up before the old man appeared. Then the one perp plowed the other one over trying to get out the door, and the old dude shot after them. I don't think he hit them once, but I didn't read the whole article.

I think the reason the 71 year old jumped up and started shooting like that so "eagerly" is because if he didn't, but warned and threatened first, it could have been a shootout, rather than the old guy simply running them out of the store, before either perp realized what had just happened.

The guy was already outside the business on the fucking ground fleeing and the old man was still shooting, looking to kill those guys. That's taking it too far IMO. And you're right, they got what they deserved...solely because gramp's is a terrible shot and can't hit someone directly in front of him.

Like I said, it's an opinion. I guess I will give more value to an individuals life despite the fact of their wrongdoing than some. You do have to admit though, him firing at someone who's no longer posing a direct threat or even being inside the building with him would be an entirely different matter in other states would it not? There's reason for that, it's questionable behavior.

[Vedubin01]

The guy was already outside the business on the fucking ground fleeing and the old man was still shooting, looking to kill those guys. That's taking it too far IMO. And you're right, they got what they deserved...solely because gramp's is a terrible shot and can't hit someone directly in front of him.

They were hit, just the caliber of use is shitty! People use the 380 due to size and weight. But in my personal opinion not worth a shit unless you are just a great marksman with a lucky shot!

As to shooting them out the door. FUCK Them! A bit bad form to shoot someone in the back, but again Fuck them!

[Bill 84 318i]

I have not problem showing both sides. Im not talking about the ones that injure ones self, but like the story in FL where a guy CCW shoots the other for being on his property. And those that actually use the CCW to stop a situation.

So please keep it apples to apples. Sadly like stated before, it is harder to find stories where they save life. Because its not what the Media likes to show.

Never said you did (okay, I may have, but not in this thread :-P).

But the people in those stories - one injured more than "ones self" by accident, and the other killed someone on his property because he was a moron.

I think it's all apples, at this point. If you can have a gun and shit like this happens - fruit type doesn't matter.

Look, I'm not anti-gun. I'm pretty "liberal" (dictionary definition, not public) on this one. What I think is worth pointing out is that most people - myself included - say "people legally entitled to carry aren't the criminals". What Charlie just pointed out were two examples of the opposite that happened this week - and that's worth discussing. That's all.

[Vedubin01]

and I agree, I was just saying so this tread does not get off track.

If anything it should be judged off "intent". The shooter with the wallet/gun incident, it was not his "intent" to use his firearm to injure himself or the others.

It was the "intent" of the Colorado shooter to use his weapon to cause innocent harm.

The guy in Cape Coral should hang for his actions!

[Rsully70sev]

Eh, I support CCW licenses but I don't think I'd ever have to personally put it to use. So I'm pretty neutral in this debate, I don't care either way.

And I'm not a liberal hippie, I have a:

Glock 19
Glock 40
Stag Arms M4
Springfield M1A Socom II

I just don't feel threatened enough where I live to have the need to carry a gun. Mine are just for recreation and home protection. If I get robbed in an ally, fuck it take my money. If that Colorado shit happens, you're pretty fucked either way.

[mrsleeve]

Central TX. 8/7/12 Man on shooting spree over neighbor hood dispute, pins cop down with and AR. Another resident plugs him 3 times at a 150 yards with a PISTOL!!!!!!

http://deadlinelive.info/2012/08/07/armed-citizen-in-tx-stops-shooting-spree-and-saves-cop-by-making-150-yard-shot-with-a-pistol/

[CorvallisBMW]

4 year old shoots himself in the head:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/crime-scene/post/stepfather-charged-in-accidental-shooting-death-of-woodbridge-4-year-old/2012/08/09/426aed2c-e255-11e1-98e7-89d659f9c106_blog.html

9 year old shot in the chest by brother:

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2012/06/9-year-old-critically-injured-in-accidental-shooting-by-brother/

17 month old shot by 28 month old:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31327616/detail.html

We can go back and forth all day on pro-gun vs anti-gun. Bottom line is that guns kill far more innocent people every year than they do criminals. So while you may feel far safer carrying around a loaded, chambered, no-safety gun, numbers prove you're far more likely to shoot yourself or family member than any kind of threat.

"For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715182

[Vedubin01]

3 thieves drove some type of an auto through the wall of a gun shop located in North Augusta, SC at about 4am this morning. The owner responded to a silent alarm and engaged them with gun fire. 1 dead at the scene . The 2 others fled the scene only to seek help for thier wounds up the road at a Waffle House. The owner on the advice of his lawyer is keeping his mouth shut. And I don't blame him.
Name of the shop is...........Guns and Ammo.
This occured in Aiken county.

Score 1 for the good guys.


just matched your 3 :/

[CorvallisBMW]

So you're saying that 3 children deserve to be paralyzed for life so that this guy can get some vigilante justice?

Was he being threatened by them? No, he arrived at the scene and responded to an alarm. He had no legal ground to shoot them and he'll (hopefully) go to jail for a very long time. Robbery is not a threat to the owner's life and therefor he did not, on legal grounds, have the right to use deadly force. No wonder his lawyer told him to shut the fuck up, he knows the guy is boned if it goes to trial.

Seriously though, it's amazing that you feel 3 innocent children should have their lives destroyed so that 1 man can shoot some burglars. How is that a "match"?

[mrsleeve]

Shitty Parenting is the root of your argument, way to go with miss directed blame, your right though its not the kids fault its the parents

I know lets ban bad parents, I bet that will solve all of the issues with inanimate objects right????

[Vedubin01]

So you're saying that 3 children deserve to be paralyzed for life so that this guy can get some vigilante justice?

Was he being threatened by them? No, he arrived at the scene and responded to an alarm. He had no legal ground to shoot them and he'll (hopefully) go to jail for a very long time. Robbery is not a threat to the owner's life and therefor he did not, on legal grounds, have the right to use deadly force. No wonder his lawyer told him to shut the fuck up.

Seriously though, it's amazing that you feel 3 innocent children should have their lives destroyed so that 1 man can shoot some burglars. I bet you'd feel differently if it was your kids.

Actually this thread was started to see how many CCW's saved lives vs "bad guys" using them on others in a crime. The 3 you posted are accidental and are the full fault of their parents for being stupid and owning a firearm. So your posts were nothing but trolling as your threads had nothing to do with Guns in Crimes vs Guns saving lives during a crime.


My kids would never be in that situation as No one has the combo to my safe. My kids would also be taught the dangers of firearms and learn to respect them. Understanding that they are not toys.

No I don't feel bad for the family that failed to educate their kids or be stupid enough to leave one around for their child to get to.

[BraveUlysses]

So you're saying that 3 children deserve to be paralyzed for life so that this guy can get some vigilante justice?

Was he being threatened by them? No, he arrived at the scene and responded to an alarm. He had no legal ground to shoot them and he'll (hopefully) go to jail for a very long time. Robbery is not a threat to the owner's life and therefor he did not, on legal grounds, have the right to use deadly force. No wonder his lawyer told him to shut the fuck up, he knows the guy is boned if it goes to trial.

Seriously though, it's amazing that you feel 3 innocent children should have their lives destroyed so that 1 man can shoot some burglars. How is that a "match"?

This is such an embarrassingly bad argument you should really be ashamed of using it to make your point.

There's no correlation between this man defending his business and property from armed robbers and three children who unfortunately suffered injuries from children involved in accidental shootings due to negligent parents. NONE.

You should be raging about criminally negligent gun owners who don't keep their guns locked up around kids--it is extremely unfortunate such incidents happen as often as they do.

[mrsleeve]

^
strangely we are in agreement. Is there some 1 in 80,000 year planetary alignment going on or something???

[frankenbeemer]

4 year old shoots himself in the head:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/crime-scene/post/stepfather-charged-in-accidental-shooting-death-of-woodbridge-4-year-old/2012/08/09/426aed2c-e255-11e1-98e7-89d659f9c106_blog.html

9 year old shot in the chest by brother:

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2012/06/9-year-old-critically-injured-in-accidental-shooting-by-brother/

17 month old shot by 28 month old:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31327616/detail.html

We can go back and forth all day on pro-gun vs anti-gun. Bottom line is that guns kill far more innocent people every year than they do criminals. So while you may feel far safer carrying around a loaded, chambered, no-safety gun, numbers prove you're far more likely to shoot yourself or family member than any kind of threat.

"For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715182

This is an argument from emotion, not reason.

Central TX. 8/7/12 Man on shooting spree over neighbor hood dispute, pins cop down with and AR. Another resident plugs him 3 times at a 150 yards with a PISTOL!!!!!!

http://deadlinelive.info/2012/08/07/...with-a-pistol/

KHOU TV (Houston) reports it was 150 feet. Still superb marksmanship if somewhat short of legendary status.

This is such an embarrassingly bad argument you should really be ashamed of using it to make your point.

There's no correlation between this man defending his business and property from armed robbers and three children who unfortunately suffered injuries from children involved in accidental shootings due to negligent parents. NONE.

You should be raging about criminally negligent gun owners who don't keep their guns locked up around kids--it is extremely unfortunate such incidents happen as often as they do.

Thank you.

[randomsv650]

Wife and I were out a while back at Chillis in NW CT. Had my SR9C on me at the time. Walked outside and heard 4 rounds fired off in the same parking lot by the Wal*Mart (naturally), then saw a car speed away. Cops showed up maybe 10 minutes later.

I didn't need the gun then, but it was locked and loaded with my hand on it if i did. A guy took 4 in the chest and we heard the shots in the same parking lot. That's good enough reason for me to carry all the time, anywhere. You never know.