When CCW saves peoples lives thread.

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  • BraveUlysses
    No R3VLimiter
    • Jun 2007
    • 3781

    #181
    Yeah lets add a source and some context to that:

    Can prison sentences deter potential criminals? A new study suggests that in certain circumstances, they can.


    Passed in 2006, Italy's Collective Clemency Bill presents a unique opportunity to study the deterrent effect of prison sentences, the authors say. Crime rates often drop when criminal penalties are increased. But it's often hard to tell if the rates go down because the threat of longer sentences deters potential criminals, or if the drop happens because actual criminals are physically removed from the street for longer periods. This study of the clemency law's effects eliminates the latter scenario, measuring only deterrent effect.

    When the clemency bill was passed, it immediately released thousands of prisoners who had three years or less left on their sentences. The remainder of each prisoner's sentence was suspended, but not forgiven. The law stipulated that a former inmate who commits a new crime within five years will have the suspended portion of his sentence reinstated and added to the sentence for the new crime. As a result, a repeat offender can expect extra jail time equal to the suspended portion of his sentence—anywhere from one month to three years.
    [...]
    "This means that a policy a commuting actual sentences in expected sentences significantly reduces recidivism," Dr. Vertova says. "A mass release of prisoners can be effective in reducing their propensity of re-committing crimes if, when a released individual gets convicted of a new crime, his normal sentence is increased by the time that was pardoned because of the early release."

    There was one important exception to the deterrent effect, however. Recidivism rates among those whose original crime was more serious were essentially unaffected by the length of their suspended sentence. That finding suggests that "more dangerous inmates are not deterred," the authors write.

    The researchers also caution that their results only measure deterrence on those who have already served time in jail. "Indeed, it is not clear whether these results can be to individuals who have never received prison treatment."

    Comment

    • ParsedOut
      E30 Fanatic
      • Sep 2005
      • 1437

      #182
      Originally posted by BraveUlysses
      I don't think you've thought this viewpoint through very well--which countries do what you think we should be doing?

      Do you really want to model our society off countries where the government kills people (guilty or not) constantly?
      For the record, I'm not advocating "hanging people from the rafters" like this other gentlemen. I'm saying we need harsh physical penalties for convicted violent crimes. Eye for an eye, pound of flesh, etc. I also did not use these other countries as a basis for my beliefs as mentioned their culture and overall government structure is not something we should mimic.

      Originally posted by z31maniac
      You made the assertion, back it up.
      I can't "back it up", it's an opinion that I have. You on the other had have made a factual assertion, so the ball is in your court. If you want to just bounce it around like a baby, then I'll leave you alone.

      Comment

      • ParsedOut
        E30 Fanatic
        • Sep 2005
        • 1437

        #183
        Originally posted by BraveUlysses
        Yeah lets add a source and some context to that:

        http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0518111726.htm
        This entire article assumes that the said criminal is deterred by prison time. Gee, if that were the case you'd think that 3 strikes would have worked...nope instead we have overpopulated our prisons and created a large population of violent criminals that having nothing to do all day except train the younger thugs who are only serving 6 months.

        If we institute physical, painful and permanent (depending on the crime) punishments, anyone without a mental disability would think twice as to whether it's worth it. I'm not saying this line of reasoning isn't FRAUGHT with pitfalls and landmines, slippery slope, etc, etc, but I think it's a conversation that needs to be had at levels where the bleeding heart progressive liberals can't stop it. State level, long live the Republic. If everyone knew that in AZ and TX, if you are caught doing a violent crime against others you will be severely punished I guarantee you those criminals will move along and those responsible citizens will be better off. Let the thugs migrate and set up shop in CA and NY, we'd see how quickly those citizens would rise up and demand the same from their politicians.

        *disclaimer* No facts to back this up, it's called common sense and personal opinion.

        Comment

        • cale
          R3VLimited
          • Oct 2005
          • 2331

          #184
          Originally posted by ParsedOut
          I can't "back it up", it's an opinion that I have. You on the other had have made a factual assertion, so the ball is in your court. If you want to just bounce it around like a baby, then I'll leave you alone.
          umm...

          Originally posted by ParsedOut
          but I will say that extreme punishments for breaking laws WILL have an effect in keeping people from doing stupid things.
          Originally posted by ParsedOut
          An armed society with HARSH punishments for breaking criminal law will make a positive impact on the vast majority of law abiding citizens.
          Originally posted by ParsedOut
          I guarantee you some states would make these changes and hard data would soon follow.
          Not sheriff cereal, or just retarded.

          Comment

          • BraveUlysses
            No R3VLimiter
            • Jun 2007
            • 3781

            #185
            Originally posted by ParsedOut
            This entire article assumes that the said criminal is deterred by prison time. Gee, if that were the case you'd think that 3 strikes would have worked...nope instead we have overpopulated our prisons and created a large population of violent criminals that having nothing to do all day except train the younger thugs who are only serving 6 months.
            I don't think you actually read that summary if that's what you took away from it.

            There was one important exception to the deterrent effect, however. Recidivism rates among those whose original crime was more serious were essentially unaffected by the length of their suspended sentence. That finding suggests that "more dangerous inmates are not deterred," the authors write.

            Comment

            • ParsedOut
              E30 Fanatic
              • Sep 2005
              • 1437

              #186
              Originally posted by BraveUlysses
              I don't think you actually read that summary if that's what you took away from it.
              I did read it, and I guess my wording was misleading. My point was that the article was circled around longer sentences as a form of punishment and that they don't deter violent criminals.

              Comment

              • ParsedOut
                E30 Fanatic
                • Sep 2005
                • 1437

                #187
                Originally posted by cale
                umm...

                Not sheriff cereal, or just retarded.
                Sorry dick, didn't realize we had preface every time an opinion is made. Would you feel better if I added IMO in front of those bolded words?

                Comment

                • cale
                  R3VLimited
                  • Oct 2005
                  • 2331

                  #188
                  Originally posted by ParsedOut
                  Sorry dick, didn't realize we had preface every time an opinion is made. Would you feel better if I added IMO in front of those bolded words?
                  You didn't realize that speaking in absolutes meant you were trying to convey something as fact? Apology accepted, dick.

                  Comment

                  • smooth
                    E30 Mastermind
                    • Apr 2005
                    • 1940

                    #189
                    One of many problems with making punishment already more punitive in this country is the idea that criminal behavior follows rational thinking, when it does not. Most crimes are without much thought and people don't believe they'll be caught. Worse, the majority of people behind bars either have severe mental illness or serious drug addiction. If you want to reduce crime well need more front end solutions instead of trying to make the tail end more harsh. It's already more than sufficiently harsh, but most crime isn't reported and most criminals don't get caught even when it is reported. When we catch someone and he goes before a court he's going to do time and more time than other countries like us and for more crimes than other countries punish for in the first place. A number of studies exist demonstrating that more prison and harsher conditions ends up creating more crime and more violent crimes committed overall. Corporal punishment isn't an option so no use bellyaching about not being able to chop some hands off--not that those kinds of policies would work well anyway because we'd end up with a million handless people drawing on welfare and disability. It's not like we can simply send them off to die in a desert...unless that's another of your policy recommendations.


                    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
                    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!

                    Comment

                    • einhander
                      R3VLimited
                      • Apr 2004
                      • 2024

                      #190
                      Originally posted by ParsedOut
                      I will in NO WAY condone these actions, but I will say that extreme punishments for breaking laws WILL have an effect in keeping people from doing stupid things. The whole cutting a hand off if caught stealing would be a much bigger deterrent than a few months of room and board and learning from more seasoned criminals how to get away with it next time or who to talk to in order to get an illegal firearm to be used for the next robbery.
                      For someone with such a hard-on for the Constitution, you again demonstrate your total ignorance of it with your Taliban-like call for punishments like that.

                      And your gut is no way to make policy, thank God.
                      2011 1M Alpine white/black
                      1996 Civic white/black
                      1988 M3 lachs/black

                      Comment

                      • Farbin Kaiber
                        Lil' Puppet
                        • Jul 2007
                        • 29502

                        #191
                        Originally posted by smooth
                        Worse, the majority of people behind bars either have severe mental illness or serious drug addiction

                        Is this an opinion like above, or can you provide links? Sounds like you are being prejudiced against incarcerated individuals.

                        Comment

                        • smooth
                          E30 Mastermind
                          • Apr 2005
                          • 1940

                          #192
                          Originally posted by Farbin Kaiber
                          Is this an opinion like above, or can you provide links? Sounds like you are being prejudiced against incarcerated individuals.

                          I'm not being prejudiced against prisoners.


                          Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
                          Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!

                          Comment

                          • Farbin Kaiber
                            Lil' Puppet
                            • Jul 2007
                            • 29502

                            #193
                            Originally posted by smooth
                            I'm not being prejudiced against prisoners.


                            Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


                            Lets just stop this derogatory terminology right now, our society has no room for this kind of blatant disrespect, this is deplorable and they are not pris*ners, they are incarcerated individuals.

                            Comment

                            • ParsedOut
                              E30 Fanatic
                              • Sep 2005
                              • 1437

                              #194
                              Originally posted by einhander
                              For someone with such a hard-on for the Constitution, you again demonstrate your total ignorance of it with your Taliban-like call for punishments like that.

                              And your gut is no way to make policy, thank God.
                              I'm well aware of the 8th amendment, thank you very much. I guess it's crazy of me to call to question the validity of an amendment, especially in our current state of affairs. All of the millions of dollars being spent to attack the 2nd without addressing the root of the issue. Criminals are not afraid of our lenient punishments, in fact many of them find the accommodations better and easier than life in the real world. So I'll still stand by my assertion that if the penalty for rape is castration (or worse) and the penalty for 1st degree murder is the death, we'd have less of it. As for people not thinking about the consequences...well if these punishments are made very clear from an early age, people would be forced to contemplate their actions wouldn't they?

                              Comment

                              • smooth
                                E30 Mastermind
                                • Apr 2005
                                • 1940

                                #195
                                They won't be forced to think about them if there isn't much chance of being caught or if they've been abused as children, are chemically dependent, or suffering from mental illness then it doesn't matter how rational the punishment is to the crime because they can't think rationally.


                                Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
                                Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!

                                Comment

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