Mike Rowe writes a letter to Mitt Romney

[mrsleeve]

^

I am like you, I have made my way in the trades, and while I have been averaging somewhat better than that the last few years I have made less than a 1/3 of that not too long ago as well, ( we are in a huge boom cycle right now) I also put in lots of 80+ hour weeks and spend a ton of time away from home. Though my best month to date this year, before benefits (H/C, Pension, Annuities, vacation days, ect...) was a in the realm of 16k gross (for me thats and exceptional month, but not unheard of to have 1 or 2 year) . Other than one of my very best friends I went to school with that went on to become a dentist, most everyone I know makes about 1/2 - 2/3 or less than myself, with huge student loans to pay for and 4-6 years lost wages. I know I am lucky to be in my position, as I have been on the losing side of the coin as well, you have to take the good with the bad, and just keep you nose to the grind stone good or bad and make it while you can so you can survive though the lean times. With BOOM comes BUST, its all part of the game.



There is much to be said for a good honest hard days work. Because of this Dub you will have to wait for my response till tomorrow.

[rwh11385]

Wow, Mike Rowe is awesome - again. Good post Vdub... actually glad I risked it and clicked.

electricians, plumbers, bridge painters, jam makers, blacksmiths, brewers, coal miners, carpenters, crab fisherman, oil drillers

those jobs pay really well here in the states... just not many people want to be a plumber etc...

Indeed, and some others out there too. But yes, the focus has been on driving everyone into a 4 year degree... any 4 year degree... even ones that most people don't expect good employment prospects but the graduate still is upset when a job isn't handed to them on exit. (Obama said he wanted to see 60% of people with college degrees, but we have difficulty with people graduating high school - a lot of times due to burnout. As mentioned in another thread, Germany and other countries are better at offering vocational training as well as classroom work in high school. I was fortunate enough to have a vocational school tied to my HS and took auto mechanics for fun, and also my university has a good technology program that trains for skilled technicians. Obama has recently included vocational training as well as college - but too little, too late. But long before him we were filing kids away to the dorms and not too specific on major and tie to skill demand, so we as a country, including baby boomer parents obviously, built this skill disconnect/mis-match and just general frowning upon skilled professions vs. cubicle dronedom)

This letter should also be sent to every young person too though. And the BLS projections of what jobs will be in demand in 20 years, so there are no surprises. And anyone with long-term unemployment in an industry that isn't coming back should take notes on where there are jobs... even if they'd prefer not to make the change and keep complaining instead.

[evandael]

if you paid attention and truly learned in college, then it is not wasted. im sorry you feel that increasing your understanding of the world was not worth your time.

of course, if you did not learn anything useful in college, then you wasted your own time and im not sorry in the least.

while this discussion is about Mike Rowe, undervaluation of the trades by mainstream America, and typical political crap, I will take the time to respond to this.


you presuppose that i went into college having a narrow minded view of the world. you also, in your own subtle way, insinuate that one can not increase their understanding of the world without going to college. and finally, you assume that a college education gives you useful, practical knowledge for the rest of your life. nobody learns anything useful in college.. technical schools show you practical knowledge, university teaches you theoretical knowledge (on the whole).


now eat a dick.

[P.Kelly]

ETA: Of course, part of the problem is that a lot of those jobs are union, and the union bosses will tell their members to vote in ways to benefit the union, not the workers.

You can't have it both ways. Either people are smart enough to elect a president based upon facts and not just sound bites or they are too dumb to decide and will blindly follow "union bosses."

:down:

[dirtysix]

Oh to be payed well for practicing a trade.

As a carpenter with 20 yrs experience I'd have done well to to bring $70k a year on an hourly rate with no, not a single one, benefits because we are nearly all contractors. And not only no benefits but, because contractor, personal liability for 10 years. Fuck that.

[mrsleeve]

while this discussion is about Mike Rowe, undervaluation of the trades by mainstream America, and typical political crap, I will take the time to respond to this.


you presuppose that i went into college having a narrow minded view of the world. you also, in your own subtle way, insinuate that one can not increase their understanding of the world without going to college. and finally, you assume that a college education gives you useful, practical knowledge for the rest of your life. nobody learns anything useful in college.. technical schools show you practical knowledge, university teaches you theoretical knowledge (on the whole).


now eat a dick.

I am starting to like you, no homo

[rwh11385]

Sleeve v. Dub reminds me that in Germany, union and mgmt relationship is much more collaborative and less adversarial. Most companies work hard at "buy-in", "engagement", and treating salaried workers nicely... but then most opinion is negative about policies, benefits, and relationships with unions. Albeit union leadership isn't always dedicated to mutual interests either instead of primarily their own, and could improve the ability to remove bad eggs - but the performance of their work is vital to their own well-being, as well as cost to their competitiveness and livelihood. This use vs. them mentality doesn't help at all.

But referring back to the original post - Rowe mentions infrastructure which will be crucial to the future of the country. Particularly improve is the electrical grid and roads, and people in ties won't be doing that... but rather dirty hands. I've seen a lot of construction around town and been pretty impressed with the planning and also the rate of completion. Obviously everyone complains about the inconvenience - but the results have been good and pace reasonable. However... that said, the construction in Michigan is absolutely ridiculous and the opposite as far as planning or pace.

[e30e]

you assume that a college education gives you useful, practical knowledge for the rest of your life. nobody learns anything useful in college.. technical schools show you practical knowledge, university teaches you theoretical knowledge (on the whole).

Now that's a narrow statement about college as a whole; I learned a lot of practical knowledge sitting classrooms, lectures, and in labs.

It depends on the individual and the degree they take; it also depends on how much you actually participate in class.

For example my gf is getting 200 level course right now on hydroponics right now, how is that not practical for stoners errrr agriculture majors that will deal with produce farmers.

[P.Kelly]

and finally, you assume that a college education gives you useful, practical knowledge for the rest of your life. nobody learns anything useful in college.. technical schools show you practical knowledge, university teaches you theoretical knowledge (on the whole).

College education does give you useful, practical knowledge for the rest of your life. So does technical school. In fact, some of the things they teach are the same. Geometry, for example, helps engineers and construction workers both figure out how to accomplish their jobs.

Is a bachelor degree more suited to a white collar job and a technical school more suited to a blue collar job? Likely, and Americans need to recognize that we need both skilled craftsmen and skilled engineers to be a successful country. That said, I went to a polytechnic university for a bachelor degree and a state university for a masters degree and received a solid mixture of both practical and theoretical knowledge. Not the least of which was how to have a reasonable debate on a decisive topic.

now eat a dick.

It doesn't take a college or technical degree to know that calling people names makes YOU look ignorant.

[mrsleeve]

^
I FIRMLY BELIEVE to be a god dammed engineer you should have to spend at least 3 preferably 5 years as a HAND in the field before you even go to school to even attempt to become an engineer. I love watching OLD school Foremen and Suppers give the kiddy engineers a schooling on how to build stuff in the real world.

Old saying, an engineers world is Flat, Square, and White!!!!!!!

* dont take this as engineer bashing, just take it as arrogant the ink on my degree is still wet but I know it all already kids, rant.


^^

You have not had to deal with too many of them out in the field, trying to tell you how to do your job yet dont know their own ass from a hole in the ground. I have all too often Chevron likes to hire the little bastards for "company man" and safety man positions on piddly little make no difference kinda jobs. Its a wonder how most of them live to see the next job as they slow everything down, cost the company piles of money in lost time and just hinder things in general. You want to beat most of them with a tube sock and a bar of soap, because they are just so dumb and wont listen, and think because they have a degree and you dont they know more about whats going on that you do.

[cale]

:up:
you presuppose that i went into college having a narrow minded view of the world. you also, in your own subtle way, insinuate that one can not increase their understanding of the world without going to college. and finally, you assume that a college education gives you useful, practical knowledge for the rest of your life. nobody learns anything useful in college.. technical schools show you practical knowledge, university teaches you theoretical knowledge (on the whole).

:up:

As someone who not TOO long ago was being force fed the bullshit about post-secondary education being the only road to success, I can say it can be pretty overwhelming. Hell even a few years after HS and working in the trades I was still having feelings of apprehension and I'll admit, feelings of settling or possibly even failure. I still have that sense of the grass possibly being greener but am content with my future, even more so when looking at those who felt the academic world was the only path or potentially worse, the road to discovering what it is they should do. I say potentially because of the volume of students graduating with no certain future or marketable knowledge. I can confidently say that the people I'd consider to be struggling after HS are mainly made up of post-secondary graduates. School gives you knowledge, but it doesn't teach you how to be successful so if you go into it without those skills it's safe to say you're gambling with your future.

[gwb72tii]

I love watching OLD school Foremen and Suppers give the kiddy engineers a schooling on how to build stuff in the real world.

QFT
worked my way thru college doing mechanical/hydraulic design for controllable pitch props at a shipyard. got educated quickly by the guys in the machine shop about what's practical and what's not.
that's also why i laugh at the insults thrown about on this board. go work in a shipyard and you'll understand. nobody can take a guy down with insults like a shipyard worker. cale, kershaw, brave and rwh are amateurs

[cale]

QFT
worked my way thru college doing mechanical/hydraulic design for controllable pitch props at a shipyard. got educated quickly by the guys in the machine shop about what's practical and what's not.

People with a hands on background always make the best engineers. Most of the repairs we work on with aircraft have to receive engineering approval, and it's painful to watch a fresh out of school engineer vs. an ex-tech comprehend the problem we're facing and try to come up with a repair procedure.

[gwb72tii]

People with a hands on background always make the best engineers. Most of the repairs we work on with aircraft have to receive engineering approval, and it's painful to watch a fresh out of school engineer vs. an ex-tech comprehend the problem we're facing and try to come up with a repair procedure.

it's amusing and painful at the same time.
so you're an eng ga neer?

[cale]

Sadly no, I wanted to be hands on so went aircraft structures as an NCM in the Air Force. It's a toss up now between something a bit more adventurous or aerospace engineer. Being a tech I know I'll make a decent one, it's shocking some of the stuff that is common knowledge to a first year apprentice is alien to a veteran engineer. And they're the one who's the authority on the matter....

ELOHEL