Gay Veteran talks to Mitt Romney

[Kershaw]

mrsleeve is atheist/agnostic. which to me, makes his position even more confusing.

[evandael]

well shit then. i am at a loss.

[deutschman]

I think that homo was going to cry lol

Kidding aside, he stood up for his values I give him kudos for that. He asked his option and he got it. He's mad

I bet that queer could and would kick your ass for that joke. Not so funny.

[Cliche Guevara]

Gay people have the same rights heterosexuals have. They have the right to *marry* someone of the opposite sex.

Do you have any idea how prickish this statement is? Yes, they can marry people of the opposite sex, but they cannot marry the person they are biologically attracted to. It's ridiculous that I should even have to explain the distinction.

[MarshallM]

The state shouldnt be in the buisness of marriage. Marriage liscences where first issued in the US as a means of segragation between blacks and whites (interacial marriages) inspired by eugenics. Marriage is a right just like being born. They dont give future parents birth liscences telling them its ok to have a child, you get a birth certificate and tell the government we had a baby deal with it.

[mrsleeve]

^

Ahhh eugenics funny you should bring that up, in a thread like this....... The people you are stumping for were/are the very ones (ideology/political theory wise that is) that were big on the whole eugenics thing in the early 20th century, and even have appointed people that have furthered the intellectual exercise much more recently, to their current administrations staff. The Irony of that post makes me actually LOL............ and then makes me sad

mrsleeve is atheist/agnostic. which to me, makes his position even more confusing.

My position is one of you live your life and believe in what you want, and I will do the same. I am not going to go outta of my way to call you ("you" being a generalized euphemism for society at large) to the mat and try to convince you that your wrong, if you dont do that to me. Its called having respect for others beliefs.

My position is one of common decency. On this gay thing, most people dont give a fuck what 2 consenting adults, do on their time behind closed doors. Its not part of their world and dont want it shoved in their face at every given opportunity, like we seem to have now. From every new prime time sit-com/drama and reality show having to have a token Homo or 2, to the marriage debate taking up the bulk of a 1/2 news program every other night.

I have no issues with getting Gay married, in-fact, they can get 90% of those things in a traditional marriage license with a simple trip to their lawyer, not even a judge or magistrate like straight people have too. What still remains out of reach, should have legislation drafted to close that gap. Just pick a different fucking word, or term, you have rightly pointed out that the meaning of words can and do change over time. Thing is though you cant force it to happen at will Via legislation or decree, upon 3/4s of a population that still identifies with a more traditional definition of the word in question (especially when you need that 3/4s to get back in office unless you are pandering to a particular demographic that has a large percentage in your district alone ) . As I have always said the marriage tantrum, is the vocal minority of the gay community, trying to shove their lifestyle and choices down the throats of most people that find it unpalatable in an attempt to legitimize their life stye to the rest of society. That is the real crux of the debate weather you chose to acknowledge that or not.

[Cliche Guevara]

What still remains out of reach, should have legislation drafted to close that gap. Just pick a different fucking word, or term, you have rightly pointed out that the meaning of words can and do change over time.

I'm fairly certain we've been over this before. You are advocating for an institution that is separate but equal, which is, as we all know, unconstitutional. There's no way around that reality.

As I have always said the marriage tantrum, is the vocal minority of the gay community, trying to shove their lifestyle and choices down the throats of most people that find it unpalatable in an attempt to legitimize their life stye to the rest of society. That is the real crux of the debate weather you chose to acknowledge that or not.

That's just straight bullshit. They just want to live their life without being discriminated against or hated for who they are. They aren't "trying to shove their lifestyle down the throats" of the rest of us, they just want a normal life.

[mrsleeve]

I'm fairly certain we've been over this before. You are advocating for an institution that is separate but equal, which is, as we all know, unconstitutional. There's no way around that reality.

Ummmmm No.................. they dont have to use a separate Homos only public restroom, or water fountains, go to homo only schools, use homo only public transit, now do they. That is separate but equal and is unconstitutional. A word that more accurately defines their relationship status is not!!

That's just straight bullshit. They just want to live their life without being discriminated against or hated for who they are. They aren't "trying to shove their lifestyle down the throats" of the rest of us, they just want a normal life.

Being gay is NOT NORMAL though is it, cant have a normal life when your not normal, its either a choice, or a hormonal/biological fuck up. Either way its not normal. If you are born that way, then they are no more normal and downs syndrome kid. They are to be afforded the same thing as anyone else, like I have been saying for a while now


Then why is it most of the gay community is rather content to live their lives in private and not really have it be known they are gay??? Why is the small vocal portion of the demographic that seems to make all the fuss about any little thing and scream to anyone that will listen, they are being shit on by society. IE shoving their life style down my throat and bombarding me with it every time I turn on the TV of log onto the internet, or read the paper???

[rwh11385]

Ummmmm No.................. they dont have to use a separate Homos only public restroom, or water fountains, go to homo only schools, use homo only public transit, now do they. That is separate but equal and is unconstitutional. A word that more accurately defines their relationship status is not!!



Being gay is NOT NORMAL though is it, cant have a normal life when your not normal, its either a choice, or a hormonal/biological fuck up. Either way its not normal. If you are born that way, then they are no more normal and downs syndrome kid. They are to be afforded the same thing as anyone else, like I have been saying for a while now

Then why is it most of the gay community is rather content to live their lives in private and not really have it be known they are gay??? Why is the small vocal portion of the demographic that seems to make all the fuss about any little thing and scream to anyone that will listen, they are being shit on by society. IE shoving their life style down my throat and bombarding me with it every time I turn on the TV of log onto the internet, or read the paper???

Separate but equal is the applicable for all rights, not just restrooms. Calling it a different word to appease the vocal close-minded Christians seems ridiculous.

So you'd kick a kids suffering from downs syndrome from the plane too? Are they not really people either? Offensive as hell comparing gays to special education. Way to point out most of the failure to emphasize comes from ignorance.

I think most resent others shitting on their rights and freedom to live their lives happily, but many feel discriminated against and are afraid of being fired or treated differently because of who they are. So they remain in the closet, which isn't really healthy - but if they feel threatened then who can blame them? They wouldn't have to take a stand for their rights if Evangelicals weren't battling to keep them down. Were blacks or women too vocal and making a fuss when fighting for equal rights? Were you the one holding the fire hose?

[Kershaw]

Ummmmm No.................. they dont have to use a separate Homos only public restroom, or water fountains, go to homo only schools, use homo only public transit, now do they. That is separate but equal and is unconstitutional. A word that more accurately defines their relationship status is not!!

how are you responding to a separate but equal statement with an explanation of what separate but equal entails?

they have to have a homos only marriage? they cant have a normal marriage? and of course straight people could get it too, but gays cant get the straight one. yeeeep, sounds fair to me! and you seem to have a real problem with them speaking out for their rights. you know what would shut them up? equal rights.

you claim to have respect for other peoples beliefs, but you're not convincing me.

[rwh11385]

My position is one of you live your life and believe in what you want, and I will do the same. I am not going to go outta of my way to call you ("you" being a generalized euphemism for society at large) to the mat and try to convince you that your wrong, if you dont do that to me. Its called having respect for others beliefs.

My position is one of common decency. On this gay thing, most people dont give a fuck what 2 consenting adults, do on their time behind closed doors. Its not part of their world and dont want it shoved in their face at every given opportunity, like we seem to have now. From every new prime time sit-com/drama and reality show having to have a token Homo or 2, to the marriage debate taking up the bulk of a 1/2 news program every other night.

I have no issues with getting Gay married, in-fact, they can get 90% of those things in a traditional marriage license with a simple trip to their lawyer, not even a judge or magistrate like straight people have too. What still remains out of reach, should have legislation drafted to close that gap. Just pick a different fucking word, or term, you have rightly pointed out that the meaning of words can and do change over time. Thing is though you cant force it to happen at will Via legislation or decree, upon 3/4s of a population that still identifies with a more traditional definition of the word in question (especially when you need that 3/4s to get back in office unless you are pandering to a particular demographic that has a large percentage in your district alone ) . As I have always said the marriage tantrum, is the vocal minority of the gay community, trying to shove their lifestyle and choices down the throats of most people that find it unpalatable in an attempt to legitimize their life stye to the rest of society. That is the real crux of the debate weather you chose to acknowledge that or not.

If you actually followed what you said, you would support gay people getting married, without some assholes going out of their way to prevent it (North Carolina).

Evangelicals have no respect for others beliefs and are the people that are actually the problem in the United States. And why the country is behind the times.

The RWNJs do care what consenting adults do in their own bedroom. Why should politicians make their public policy limiting someone else's private life?

I wasn't aware that people needed society's permission (and yours) to live their lives and the pursuit of happiness.

The majority of Americans support gay marriage... not the 3/4s against you just made up: http://www.gallup.com/poll/154529/ha...-marriage.aspx 74% among REPUBLICANS are against it though

[LowR3V'in]

I remember the past owner of this site had a gay rainbow flag on the front page
for a day.

[evandael]

Then why is it most of the gay community is rather content to live their lives in private and not really have it be known they are gay??? Why is the small vocal portion of the demographic that seems to make all the fuss about any little thing and scream to anyone that will listen, they are being shit on by society.

Do you really believe people are content to hide a core part of their existence to avoid social anathema and persecution? Don't say it doesn't exist, you're espousing it right here in this thread.


Also, doesn't it seem rational that what you perceive to be 'a small vocal minority' are the people that you hear/see on the news? Of course you're going to hear and see them, they're the ones standing up to this bullshit, and they aren't a minority in their views, they're just the ones brave enough to risk social standing to enact change! Were the first black Americans to stage sit-ins, or Rosa Parks, or MLK Jr, or Harvey Milk, or Mohatma Gandhi or hell, let's get historical.. Martin Luther or even Jesus... were these people just 'small vocal minorities'? Were they just shoving views down peoples' throats to make the majority 'uncomfortable'?


No! They were figureheads of entire communities who were sick and fed up with the status quo, who risked their social standing (and lives, in many cases) to make positive change against corrupt or defunct social codes that disenfranchised them at the best, and, at worst, robbed them of the rights they deserve just the same as you and I.

[mrsleeve]

NO

Is a Downs kid normal NO, is he born like that YES, Should they be afforded the same things as everyone else YES. Same thing with the Gays, are the normal NO, are they born like that Some say YES. Surely you can see the point I am making here is not meant to be offensive in the least, just merely 2 examples of genetic malfunction during gestation right. I have not in any way made it a matter of discrimination, just that the VAST portion of the population is not gay and there for being gay is not normal. Sure they can function as a normal person just as the higher functioning Downs suffers can but fundamental from both a societal and evolutionary perspective they are glitches correct?? This was my point with the comparison
.


Where did I say I supported kicking them off a plane, or anything else... I find that kinda thing very offensive and would have if I was around then, as I would now.

Like I have always said what 2 consenting adults do is their business, I DONT CARE, but you cant force actions and life style into others lives, and with marriage tantrum, more than 70% of this country identifies with some kinda of religious dogma. To them marriage is Man + Woman you cant just force them to believe otherwise by legislative decree. Yes I agree a words meaning can change over time and there is no doubt that this word has changed but its taken a 1000 years do so. Why would you expect to change the definition of word thats at the core of over 70% of the populations beliefs over night LITERALLY ????

Besides if it was all about the "perks/legal implications that come with getting married" then the demographic would have jumped at the chance to get them under a change in terms and getting their own word. The fact they have not is a clear indication of the true agenda.


Edit: Heeter I am talking about the general populace, not the just RWNJ as you put it and the extreme bible thumpers.

[rwh11385]

NO where did I say anything that is discriminatory????


Is a Downs kid normal NO, is he born like that YES, Should they be afforded the same things as everyone else YES. Same thing with the Gays, are the normal NO, are they born like that Some say YES. Surely you can see the point I am making here is not meant to be offensive in the least, just merely 2 examples of genetic malfunction during gestation right. I have not in any way made it a matter of discrimination, just that the VAST portion of the population is not gay and there for not normal. Sure they can function as a normal person just as the higher functioning Downs suffers can but fundamental from both a societal and evolutionary perspective they are glitches.


Where did I say I supported kicking them off a plane, or anything else... I find that kinda thing very offensive and would have if I was around then, as I would now.

Like I have always said what 2 consenting adults do is their business, I DONT CARE, but you cant force actions and life style into others lives, and with marriage tantrum, more than 70% of this country identifies with some kinda of religious dogma. To them marriage is Man + Woman you cant just force them to believe otherwise by legislative decree. Yes I agree a words meaning can change over time and there is no doubt that this word has changed but its taken a 1000 years do so.

Besides if it was all about the "perks/legal implications that come with getting married" then the demographic would have jumped at the chance to get them under a change in terms. The fact they have not is a clear indication of the true agenda.

Sleeve, we all know you probably would have called Rosa Parks "rowdy" and told her to sit down at the back of the bus already... but maybe you should open your eyes to how offensive your views are.

Gay people are not a malfunction.

Since when does different = messed up? That fact that you don't respect differences makes you an asshole.

Left-handed people are also born the way they are and function differently, and people can learn to switch hit, and some parents are even so cracked out that they teach them to be right... but that doesn't mean they should or it is the correct thing to do.

The biggest mistake with people trying to "fix" a gay person is that they assume it is a problem to be fixed in the first place. Until you realize that, you're an awful person in my opinion.

Much of society during your raising also thought that blacks were not as capable of the rest of the population. Close-minded people's perspectives shouldn't determine civil rights.



Maybe you should actually read and realize that people outside the oil rig, or your gun-tooting, gay-hating neighbors, can support gay marriage, and even a good number of mainline Christians as well as other groups (non-Evangelicals) do too. Assuming that all people who are religious are against gay marriage is ignorant, trying to find a false majority to back your close-mindedness.