Obama In 1998: "I Actually Believe In Redistribution"

[mrsleeve]

So let me get the correct, Even though someone earns and acquires a pile of money, its really not their money huh.....

Wow how communal of you

[z31maniac]

Considering it is not really their money to begin with, I would say they owe us a lot. It's not the top 1% that is the problem, it is the top .01%, the Mitt Romneys of capitalism that buy government to favor their own wealth creation. It's not far off from a feudel system.

As we have pointed out many times, the middle and lower classes share a much greater tax burden in the socialist-style Euro countries. What's wrong with everyone "having a little skin in the game?"

Or maybe if your boy Obama had eliminated lobbying like he promised, instead of hiring lobbyists in to work for him, that type of system would be less prevalent.

Hell, let's ban it all together. But neither side wants that.

[herbivor]

As we have pointed out many times, the middle and lower classes share a much greater tax burden in the socialist-style Euro countries. What's wrong with everyone "having a little skin in the game?"

Or maybe if your boy Obama had eliminated lobbying like he promised, instead of hiring lobbyists in to work for him, that type of system would be less prevalent.

Hell, let's ban it all together. But neither side wants that.

Agreed. But the reason European the middle and lower class share a greater tax burden is because they have a much smaller income gap. There is nothing wrong with being rich, or accumulating wealth, but our system gives the wealthy an unfair advantage over those without wealth. Again, it's a feudal system more than that of a democratic capitalist one. Rather than tax the rich more, we need to change the rules completely, and eliminating lobbyists would be a good step as you pointed out.

[z31maniac]

We also need:

https://www.fairtax.org

[rwh11385]

Agreed. But the reason European the middle and lower class share a greater tax burden is because they have a much smaller income gap. There is nothing wrong with being rich, or accumulating wealth, but our system gives the wealthy an unfair advantage over those without wealth. Again, it's a feudal system more than that of a democratic capitalist one. Rather than tax the rich more, we need to change the rules completely, and eliminating lobbyists would be a good step as you pointed out.

What gives you that impression, as opposed to having a very different perspective on who is "well off enough" to pay their share? Politicians cater to the middle class here and spoil them.

As we have pointed out many times, the middle and lower classes share a much greater tax burden in the socialist-style Euro countries. What's wrong with everyone "having a little skin in the game?"

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=245664&highlight=progressive+tax

http://reason.com/archives/2012/04/16/taxation-american-style

Bartlett calculated that the “average [European] worker making an annual income in the $40,000 to $50,000 range is in the top marginal tax bracket.” A comparison of France and the U.S. is revealing: The top marginal income tax rate in the U.S. is 35 percent and kicks in at $379,000. In France the top rate is 41 percent and kicks in at $96,000.

These social spending figures should not be confused with the amount a government spends to help poor people. Many tax breaks disproportionately benefit the middle class, not the least well off. The same is also true for spending; only 14 percent of the U.S. budget goes to lower-income Americans.

Which raises the issue of fairness. Basic principles of fairness tell us that people with roughly the same income should pay roughly the same amount of taxes. Unfortunately, the amount of taxes Americans pay today has little to do with how much money they make and more to do with how many kids they have, whether they rent or own a house, which state they live in, and whether they make their money in the form of wages or capital gains. This system is not only unfair; it is also highly inefficient, as the disparities encourage taxpayers to shift their income and investment around to reduce their tax burden.

Good analysis I tried to find earlier for the other thread about taxes: http://www.ncpa.org/speech/the-alter...ve-the-problem

[tjts1]

Obama In 1998: "I Actually Believe In Redistribution"

So do the majority of Americans apparently since he's getting re elected and all that.

[mar1t1me]

Romney is in to the whole redistribution thing, too, ya know......

On 60 minutes, he stated:

So what I do in my Medicare plan for younger people coming along is say this, "We're going to have higher benefits for low income people and lower benefits for high income people. We're going to make it more means tested." I think if we do that, we'll make sure to preserve Medicare into the indefinite future.

That's redistribution!

The whole argument is a fairly ridiculous one. Until everyone is paid exactly the same amount, and taxed exactly the same amount, a certain amount of redistribution will occur as a necessary function of a civilized society.

[Kershaw]

romney also doesnt even know his own stance on taxes or medicare.

[Grand525]

Get over it! You're fucked either way.

Is there anything else you can do besides talking and blogging?

[joshh]

I've seen what Obama has been able to fail at miserably. Time to give someone else a chance. The only thing I see in Romney is he knows how business works and that government is not the *only* solution. Unlike Obama.

[2l2ltq]

Considering it is not really their money to begin with, I would say they owe us a lot. It's not the top 1% that is the problem, it is the top .01%, the Mitt Romneys of capitalism that buy government to favor their own wealth creation. It's not far off from a feudel system.

Your pretty dumb. Please show in hard facts where he has done what you say.

And also like I always say. What is the number one and two problem with this county? Economy and debt. Who do you want handling that? Obama or a buisness man who is rich...... No brainer he obviously knows how to create jobs and work with money.

But we still argue about taxes..... Why isn't anyone screaming about the un proposing a global tax ?!?!

[herbivor]

Your pretty dumb. Please show in hard facts where he has done what you say.

And also like I always say. What is the number one and two problem with this county? Economy and debt. Who do you want handling that? Obama or a buisness man who is rich...... No brainer he obviously knows how to create jobs and work with money.

But we still argue about taxes..... Why isn't anyone screaming about the un proposing a global tax ?!?!

Are you new to this country?? Please watch the documentary " Inside Job" for more insight.

And why is it that people assume that running the government is like running a business? I run a successful business but would not have a clue on how to run the government. They are not anything alike. With regards to running the country, I would trust Obama's work background over Romney's any day. I think the fact that Romney was born into wealth and had a free ride his whole life, and is now worth over 200 million dollars shows a true disconnect with the problems of the average American family. You'll have to complain 4 more years about Obama, but at least you'll have someone to blame your problems on.

[Cliche Guevara]

Your pretty dumb. Please show in hard facts where he has done what you say.

lol.

And also like I always say. What is the number one and two problem with this county? Economy and debt. Who do you want handling that? Obama or a buisness man who is rich...... No brainer he obviously knows how to create jobs and work with money.

But we still argue about taxes..... Why isn't anyone screaming about the un proposing a global tax ?!?!

Romney's first step in reducing the deficit is to add $5 trillion in debt through tax cuts that disproportionately favor the rich. He will then make up all that last revenue through closing loopholes and deductions that he refuses to specify. He's effectively saying that we need to elect him before he'll tell us what he's actually going to do. I can't emphasize how absurd that approach is. The only thing that we can know about Romney's tax plan right now is that it will add $5 trillion to the deficit, the rest is unspecified, vague promises. Objectively, voting in favor of a plan of this nature in the name of debt reduction is irrational on its face.

[rwh11385]

Your pretty dumb. Please show in hard facts where he has done what you say.

And also like I always say. What is the number one and two problem with this county? Economy and debt. Who do you want handling that? Obama or a buisness man who is rich...... No brainer he obviously knows how to create jobs and work with money.

But we still argue about taxes..... Why isn't anyone screaming about the un proposing a global tax ?!?!

You're pretty dumb.

Dude, if you want to call someone dumb, you should at least use proper grammar.

I'm guessing herbivor is referencing this, or something similar: http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica...t_manager.html

The problem with targeting $250K+ is a lot of hard-working and highly educated households can be in there, along with small business. We are villianizing doctors, engineers, leaders in companies that worked their way up from entry level, and the local business owner. However, there are assholes who game the system and cheat, and we could help limit this with a better tax system (less complex one and not written in favor of those who have enough money to donate and protect their interests) and then we can better capture a fair amount from people who evade taxes or distort things to benefit them. But lumping the hatred for that with those who work hard and do well but not amazing for themselves as the enemy is simplistic and dividing the country.

#1 problem is Congress. From them, we have politicians catering to contributors instead of the voter's best interests and also the problem of not being able to pass a budget or reduce spending or agree on tax rates so we risk default and have a huge fiscal cliff coming yet they go on vacation early.

[herbivor]

^You have always been good at using the interwebs. I think that article makes my point exactly. A summary of the point:

I could go on and on, but the bottom line is this: A highly complex set of laws and exemptions from laws and taxes has been put in place by those in the uppermost reaches of the U.S. financial system. It allows them to protect and increase their wealth and significantly affect the U.S. political and legislative processes. They have real power and real wealth. Ordinary citizens in the bottom 99.9% are largely not aware of these systems, do not understand how they work, are unlikely to participate in them, and have little likelihood of entering the top 0.5%, much less the top 0.1%. Moreover, those at the very top have no incentive whatsoever for revealing or changing the rules. I am not optimistic.