Government Dependence

[E30_fiend]

Here's a novel idea: how about our government stops getting involved in everything and let's the market dictate what's needed; ya know, that ancient idea of free market capitalism... let the market force companies that do bad things or aren't needed to fail. Dont bail them out. Let the higher education services of the nation be good, or fail. Dont subsidize loans so kids can go in debt for an education they wont be able to use. Dont force every kid to magically graduate, let them fail. And so on and so on.

I just got all tingly

[tjts1]

I just got all tingly

Do you need to change your panties?

[rwh11385]

i know plenty. they really know how to cheat the system well too.

take a look at england for example. they were once a very strong country with a very strong and striving economy.

my mother, who was born in england shared something with me a while back that her father told her. he told her, "the english are the laziest workers (or people, i can't remember) in the world." she asked him why is that and he replied with, "because they rely to heavily on the government for assistance; so many of them stopped striving to become something great of themselves and stopped achieving greatness. they get simple, easy jobs to pay for extra expenses and then rely on the government checks, healthcare, etc."

many, not all, but many of my relatives and family who still live there are exactly this. they work simple easy jobs, have children, and collect government checks and other assistance. this is why europe has nearly gone bankrupt. there just isn't enough money to go around.

everyone who thinks they are entitled to free things such as government checks, welfare, obamaphones, obamacare, food stamps, etc. have no clue and/or refuse to look at the big picture. none of that is free. i have to pay for things like that. and i'm sure many of you who work and pay taxes have to as well. nothing is free in life, plain and simple.

many may argue and be in denial, but the sad truth is, it's only going to get worse. it may be a "few" now, but it will only progressively get worse. especially since the democrat party like to preach and brainwash about how terrible capitalism is. imagine this country without capitalism...ha.

As much as people on the dole is an issue, that's not the sole factor that influenced UK's fall from power. Even though the looting riots were especially telling of some of the mentalities of young people... this was was influenced by other things - in particular like in the US, by education.

http://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Briti.../dp/0391034391

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1220992/CORRELLI-BARNETT-Britains-children-betrayed-woeful-education---failed-150-years.html

These two devastating attacks on Britain's education system echoed a previous grim indictment of British schools in the form of a Royal Commission report.

It said: 'Our evidence appears to show that our industrial classes have not even that basis of sound general education on which alone technical education can rest. In fact, our deficiency is not merely a deficiency in technical education, but in general intelligence.'

And the date of this devastating indictment? It was 1868. Yes, more than 140 years ago.

Moreover, this Victorian Royal Commission added a dire warning: 'Unless we remedy this want of general intelligence we shall gradually but surely find that our undeniable superiority in wealth and perhaps in vigour will not save us from decline.'

Jump forward to the years just before World War II and the British still remained far worse trained than their international trading rivals - particularly the Germans, whom they were about to fight.

At the apex of the educational pyramid in 1939 was a privileged handful of university students (a tiny proportion compared with numbers in France and only a third of those in America).

At the bottom of the pyramid, 99 per cent of working- class children left school devoid of any kind of qualification, whether scholastic or vocational.
In the middle of the pyramid, the secondary school population, aged 14 to 18, amounted to less than a tenth of those in that age group. And, while pre-war Germany had nearly two million youngsters in parttime vocational training, Britain had a mere 20,000.

The same dismal pattern can be seen with university education. In 1938-9, subjects which we called 'applied science' (or what Germans described as 'Technik') accounted for barely 5,000 students out of a total of 50,000, whereas the humanities were studied by more than 22,000.

Britain had no equivalents to the 300 German technical colleges, let alone the ten German technical universities.

No wonder, then, that from the start of pre-war rearmament and right through World War II, Britain was handicapped by shortages of technicians-graduate technologists and production engineers - as well as by a far too narrow industrial base in advanced technologies such as radio engineering and machine tools.

The Act had specified three types of school to cater for different kinds of young talent: secondary modern, secondary technical and academic grammar.

This tripartite system was what continental nations have always had - and Germany still has.

The three different types of school were intended to be equal in status and funding.

But grammar schools got the best funding, the best buildings and the best teachers, while the cash-strapped secondary moderns and secondary techs were forced to operate out of outdated, shabby and cramped premises.

Too many British university students are wasting time on so- called 'rice pudding' topics (soft and easy to digest) such as media studies, rather than studying tougher subjects such as maths, physics, chemistry and engineering.

For them, the classics or English literature were better than science. And, even then, 'pure' science (original research) was nobler than applied science (technology).

Nothing vocational - much too vulgar! Ever since, the prejudices of the bookish few dictated the education of the unbookish many.

Compared to Germany, the UK's strategy for its future workforce was weak and did not ensure that it would have the foundation for strength and growth - and aware of it for many, many decades. Your reference to "easy jobs" could be taken as not intellectually taxing or non-technical, which alludes back to the educational system and priorities the UK has had in the last century and a half.

Likewise, the US has a huge HS dropout problem, a great number of people getting "rice pudding" degrees, and devoid of enough good vocational opportunities like other nations. This can be seen in the revolts from OWS who did not find good jobs after their debt for masters in English or other studies. We have a shortage of technically skilled workers at the same time.

Half of US's economic growth since WWII can be attributed to technological innovation... so how could UK possibly keep up if studies such as engineering and technology took a backseat to grammar?

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/nga-conference-hockfield-0715.html

"‘Lasting economic growth emerges from the most advanced science, mathematics and technology,’"

"Now, that's America’s innovation system at work. It is a direct descendant of the investment-based research and development system the United States invented to develop the technologies, like radar and the atomic bomb, that won World War II."

"federal research investments reinvented American universities as powerhouses of modern scientific and technological research. The ideas that flowed out of academic labs helped deliver huge gains in productivity and employment, by fueling one innovation wave after another: Electronics and semiconductors in the 1960s and ’70s; mainframe and mini computers in the ’70s and ’80s; personal computing and the Internet in the ’90s; and, in the late 1990s, biotech.

The cumulative effect of the IT, or information technology, wave in the 1990s, for example, produced one of the most successful periods in our recent economic history."

"In fact, economists have shown that since World War II, more than half of U.S. economic growth can be attributed to technological innovation, much of it springing from federally funded, advanced scientific research."

Sure, the dot-com bubble popped at the end of the 90s, but the rise of the internet and fall in computer prices and increase in mobile devices has dramatically changed our world. The rise of gas prices have challenged us but the technology and innovation we are seeing to deal with such is truly awesome. We have private space race and companies hunting for asteroids to mine, with better computers to model and simulate.

Although there are some people who are poorly allocated in the US, there are plenty who are passionate and inspired to improve the world around them - either from technology or even by social enterprise and entrepreneurship. (Another big mention in the MIT article) Sitting around and waiting for someone to give you a job is not helpful, nor is not having the skills to be productive on your own. With the rise of crowdfunding, people can get the backing they need to produce their products for the market - which is incredible. I think this is a giant opportunity for growth personally.

People riding welfare is troublesome, but so is the social environments and influences that they are in. If we help them find meaningful work instead of writing them off if they don't want to go to college, we can have the technical people we need who enjoy what they do instead of looking for a handout. Motivation is key, and we should improve our programs to help people find solutions rather than treat them as the enemy or scum. Some people might not want to get off the system, but we can help avoid as many in the future if we work to change how we "process" students in HS and offer more opportunities.

[nando]

I think something like 1/3 of kids here drop out of high school. that's pretty damn scary.

[ethrtyiS]

As much as people on the dole is an issue, that's not the sole factor that influenced UK's fall from power. Even though the looting riots were especially telling of some of the mentalities of young people... this was was influenced by other things - in particular like in the US, by education.

http://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Briti.../dp/0391034391

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1220992/CORRELLI-BARNETT-Britains-children-betrayed-woeful-education---failed-150-years.html

there are other things that factored in sure, but most of my older relatives tell me all the time how their economy went to hell mainly due to government reliance. they even tell me that the united states is following in the same path and that 300 years of prosper and hard work are going down the drain. i believe i still have that facebook message somewhere around.

and the education system is failing here too. i watched a 60 minute episode 2 weeks ago on how the education system is failing the children. and it's true, it absolutely shows.

[nando]

all older generations think the coming generations are "going to hell".

[mrsleeve]

^
this is true but dont you think the pace of down hill decent is picking up momentum ????

[Fusion]

The ironic thing is that we have so many advancements, that you don't have to go to (a) school to learn something. We have massive amounts of knowledge at our fingertips and we have the possiblity to "go to" a school that's thousands of miles away.

People know there's someone who'll save them, thus low motivation for knowledge.

[rwh11385]

there are other things that factored in sure, but most of my older relatives tell me all the time how their economy went to hell mainly due to government reliance. they even tell me that the united states is following in the same path and that 300 years of prosper and hard work are going down the drain. i believe i still have that facebook message somewhere around.

and the education system is failing here too. i watched a 60 minute episode 2 weeks ago on how the education system is failing the children. and it's true, it absolutely shows.

So a family member's perspective from a Facebook message proves that government programs are the cause of UK's fall from grace? Okay because that sounds perfectly reasonable. . .


We have an incredible amount of technological progress that most take for granted and a high standard of living - there can be more people pursuing careers that foster further development and innovation and quality of life for others instead of living off the system but claiming it's all going down the drain is a bit overdramatic.

[ethrtyiS]

So a family member's perspective from a Facebook message proves that government programs are the cause of UK's fall from grace? Okay because that sounds perfectly reasonable. . .


We have an incredible amount of technological progress that most take for granted and a high standard of living - there can be more people pursuing careers that foster further development and innovation and quality of life for others instead of living off the system but claiming it's all going down the drain is a bit overdramatic.

you've never lived in england. unless you have lived there or have seen how things work, you wouldn't understand. the amount of government spending is far surpassed the number of money taken in. sounds all too familiar here.

[Bryan///]

I just got all tingly

This is just scratching the flea that hasn't even landed on the surface of this topic known as free market capitalism. Let actual economists decide what's best. How bout that?

[BraveUlysses]

you've never lived in england. unless you have lived there or have seen how things work, you wouldn't understand. the amount of government spending is far surpassed the number of money taken in. sounds all too familiar here.

and neither do you

fuck your shitty THIRD FUCKING PARTY anecdotal stories that hold no bearing on anything

[rwh11385]

you've never lived in england. unless you have lived there or have seen how things work, you wouldn't understand. the amount of government spending is far surpassed the number of money taken in. sounds all too familiar here.

Actually I have, you ignorant assuming idiot. But tell me how much you don't know about me living and working there.

[ethrtyiS]

and neither do you

fuck your shitty THIRD FUCKING PARTY anecdotal stories that hold no bearing on anything

you're right, i don't anymore.

lol. the sad cold fact is that it's true. so stay in denial.

Actually I have, you ignorant assuming idiot. But tell me how much you don't know about me living and working there.

i assumed so because you had not mentioned it and because you don't seem to know very much, if any, to what has/is happening there, therefore i came to that conclusion. and if you have then you'd know that it had something to do with it. i don't need to know your background, nor could i care less to know. the point is, i've lived there, my family goes back generations there, and they can all vouch for the same thing.

and to be honest, i could care less even more now to what you have to say since you can't seem to keep a conversation civilized and professional, instead you have to resort to using ignorant words toward me.

[smooth]

almost everyone on this board has family that "goes back generations there"