Government Dependence

[Threehz]

I continue to see people talking about America becoming socialist under Obama's presidency and saying that soon all of America will be lazy leaches suckling off of the government's tit.

I've never met a single person in my life who doesn't have dreams or who would be content struggling day to day to live a shitty life not doing anything and trying to rely on government support.

Do any of you who think this is a problem know anyone like this?

[Kershaw]

gwbtii will tell you 47% of america is like that and he's met at least half of them personally, so he knows and you can trust his word on it.

[mrsleeve]

yup I know a few

[Kershaw]

and i guarantee you know more that dont game the system.

it's not a perfect system, but i'd rather have a few people game the system than not having public roads, public schools, public water, public medical care, public libraries, public police, public firemen,.... all this socialism.... it's gotta be bad, right?

[gwb72tii]

yup i know a few also

but kershaw you misunderstand me. i am nor anti welfare for those truly in need. nobody is that i know.

but do you really believe in the benevolence of obama? that he truly cares to help anyone and everyone without considering the politics of his admin's actions?

mitt is right with 47% quote. divide and conquer. give people enough free stuff and they'll vote for you forever. its the new democrat permanent majority, bought and paid (by me) for.

[mrsleeve]

and i guarantee you know more that dont game the system.

Yeah there is a reason for that. I dont frequent social circles that involve large amounts of those types of people. I have a job, that I have to interact with lot of other employed people . So there for you are correct, I know more people with a job and not leaching off the system... than I do that are.


I have said time and time again I am not against helping those that need it, I am all for that, there just needs to be time limits, and criteria for getting people to shit or get off the pot so to speak.

[z31maniac]

and i guarantee you know more that dont game the system.

it's not a perfect system, but i'd rather have a few people game the system than not having public roads, public schools, public water, public medical care, public libraries, public police, public firemen,.... all this socialism.... it's gotta be bad, right?

I agree.

But, if for instance, you are on food stamps. You shouldn't be able to use your EBT card to get cash, which then use for beer/cigs (I worked at QT through high school/college, it was frequent).

You shouldn't be able to buy groceries at a gas station where it's 50% more than a grocery store. No fast food, etc. You get the basics.

Why is that so bad? My wife and I are in top 10% income and we don't even have cable...........if you have a $40k a year household, how do you justify it?

[Threehz]

I have to ask, how are these people not being disqualified? You can only collect benefits for a certain amount of time (~two years) before you have to go find work.

How do you get cash from an EBT card?

Also, I don't think fast food or cheap snacks are a healthy option (or should be considered food), but it's not like you can spend EBT money on anything except food.

Why is that so bad? My wife and I are in top 10% income and we don't even have cable...........if you have a $40k a year household, how do you justify it?

What are you trying to say?

[mrsleeve]

I have to ask, how are these people not being disqualified? You can only collect benefits for a certain amount of time (~two years) before you have to go find work.

your thinking of Unemployment, which right now is kinda a hybrid. Your initial 26 weeks (the standard UE claim) is paid out by you and your employer while your working. The 4 or 5 levels of extensions that are out there that take you up to 99 weeks well yeah thats not and there for paid for more so by the tax payer

We are not talking about U/E we are talking about straight up welfare, Food and cash on your EBT, Section 8 subsidized housing, govt provided land line (good) / Obama Phone(bad) ect.....

How do you get cash from an EBT card?

You go to the ATM and make the withdrawal just like any other bank card. Its not just your food stamp money that goes on them but, your month stipend as well. There has been talk of disqualifying some ATMs that are in or near casinos, strip clubs and similar establishments, to make it harder for those on the dole to use tax payer provided funds for such purposes.

[Also, I don't think fast food or cheap snacks are a healthy option (or should be considered food), but it's not like you can spend EBT money on anything except food.

Ya think................... AND yes you can when its not food stamp money. Even though thats not what its for, thats what happens to a lot of it.



It pisses you off when you in line at the grocery store and the people in fornt of you have a few hundred bucks worth of stuff. Then proceed to rin up good steak, and sea food, and lots of other premium items and brands. Only to get the beer, booze and tobacco, and have the cashier stop the transaction, and pay for all that food with a fucking EBT card, then spend another 100-200 in cash on 2 cartons of smokes, 3 cases of beer and a couple 1/2 gallons of rot gut now is that from the welfare check or from flipping burgers and stealing copper for the scrap value from construction sites I can tell you but the point remains. All the while in your basket you have cubed steak, generic cereal, store brand cookies and so on, and one 6 pack because you have to pay for it your self. I have seen this situation personally many many many times where I used to live.

[Kershaw]

mitt is right with 47% quote. divide and conquer.

are you fucking kidding me? how are you still trying to justify this number? the people mitt was trying to talk about >20%. that 21-47% is quite a productive section of society. they are called the (lower to mid) middle class. these are the new cops, teachers, military, civil servants, and just about everyone that recently graduated from college. hell, it might even include you. mitt just doesnt give a shit about the middle class and see them all as leeches on society even though they are the ones making society. even worse, it's hypocritical, because he, the vulture capitalist shipping jobs to china 24/7, is the real leech on society.

you guys get so upset about the few people that game the system. it's such a small issue. we've got far bigger things to worry about. put it on the back burner. you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

[z31maniac]

^You make a valid point.

[CabrioPunk]

are you fucking kidding me? how are you still trying to justify this number? the people mitt was trying to talk about >20%. that 21-47% is quite a productive section of society. they are called the (lower to mid) middle class. these are the new cops, teachers, military, civil servants, and just about everyone that recently graduated from college. hell, it might even include you. mitt just doesnt give a shit about the middle class and see them all as leeches on society even though they are the ones making society. even worse, it's hypocritical, because he, the vulture capitalist shipping jobs to china 24/7, is the real leech on society.

you guys get so upset about the few people that game the system. it's such a small issue. we've got far bigger things to worry about. put it on the back burner. you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

It isn't a mole hill. It is a big deal ideologically speaking. Contrary to what this nation was founded on. To have people so dependent on assistance really puts us all at a disadvantage. It is not the intended purpose of our Republic. Being in the Metro area Kershaw you haven't seen this? No folks in the check out line with wads of cash, paying with "Independence cards"?

There are many things that could be worried about. This particular idea though really takes the cake as it is fundamental. Deciding which is more important to one person or the next isn't so much the issue.

The dependence is seen large scale. It is bailouts in the corporate realm, money to those failed green companies right down to the leech of the system being discussed.

I don't mind paying taxes. I do mind where those taxes go. Roads, schools, defense I think we can all agree as great and needed. Making sure someone eats well, drives a nice car, has a cell phone, has a house, has play money and more is not a government thing; that is personal responsibility. There is a lot of silly spending with our tax money. Some of it can be argued, some of it is downright unconscionable.

Just like we may follow budgets, spending less or near the amount we bring in so, too, should government. We should look at our budgets and when times are tough we make those decisions to knock out things.. dropping services, cut our own hair, change our own oil, mow our own lawn, downgrade cable/TV/internet/cell, etc.

And to the OP I do know people like this, personally and in just everyday life at the WalMart check-out line. And I tend to keep to myself. It is out there. Just because someone cannot account for all doesn't mean the problem is not there.

[Kershaw]

absolutely i've seen this system get gamed. i've also seen this system really help people out. when 20% of the children (and 14% of adults) that live in the us live in poverty, you're definitely going to see people using food stamps. and yes, people make bad decisions (like having kids when they cant afford food for themselves) but are we going to punish the kids for the sins of their fathers? i dont agree with that point of view. i also think simply cutting services like this is a bit, "cant see the forest for the trees" view. you suddenly have a huge segment of society that is literally scrambling for survival, what are they going to do? whatever they have to. i can only imagine the chaos and crime that would result from nixing something like food stamps.

i try to solve issues with a holistic view. so, let's start with issue number 1. the poor kids of these dumb people. how do we solve that? we make birth control free and easily accessible to everyone. lets stop this shit before it starts. and let's be honest here, this shit is going to save us billions. 2. further our efforts in education, especially inner city and rural education. give them a good way out and i believe more people are going to shoot for the benz for walking to the shitty corner store for the rest of their lives.

i believe if birth control and good education were readily available, problems like food stamps would start to solve themselves.

[Fusion]

In regards to "socialist europe" we have 3 levels of unemployment support, the maximum amount you can receive in any month is capped at ca $700 in all cases. The normal rate of support is 65% of your previous net salary for the first two months of unemployment, 50% for the two months after that, and 45% after that. You are required to look for work, otherwise recieve nothing.
Provided that you worked for your previous employer at least 6 months, iirc.
And we have the least poverty.

Motivation is key.

Oh and yes, this system was put in place by the "right wing nut jobs" who did not want to support leeching the previous system.

[Threehz]

MrSleeve, look up welfare, the maximum is two years unless you can prove you are going through an extraordinary situation, unemployment is a totally different monster which no one should be complaining about.

I wasn't aware welfare and food assistance benefits were on the same card, but I guess that makes some sense. I've never personally seen anyone use an EBT and for food and then buy liquor, but I'm sure it happens.

Lots of good points Kershaw.

Abolish No Child Left Behind, make education and birth control readily available, and pay for it all by legalizing and taxing America's #1 cash crop.

Nobody wants easy solutions though...