Government Dependence

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  • rwh11385
    lance_entities
    • Oct 2003
    • 18403

    #91
    Originally posted by ethrtyiS
    you are assuming now.
    i have conversations via facebook since it's free rather than make calls. and there has been plenty of chats regarding the economy here and there. they have lived through many years and have seen how things have changed. i know for a fact that it contributed to the bankrupcy of the uk because it's been the exact same scenario in each country who've followed the same footsteps. whether i listen to old family advice or not, it's written into history for anyone to see that the same policies have failed before.

    the majority of people that live here need to look at the big picture, not just what looks good for right here and now. learn from the mistakes of the past and avoid them. plain and simple. if you don't know how, then please go do some research. open up history books, not one, but multiple, and see how things are now. then tell me how all of these new government programs and policies aren't restricting our freedom and how they aren't starting to hurt our economy.
    I'm not assuming about you using a really pathetic excuse of a logical fallacy. You are not getting the basic concept that your parents' opinions mean nothing as far as proof. A reasonable person would provide data or research beyond their family's opinion, or do more than state baseless claims as facts. You really ought to learn what logic is all about, because you have none. Circular reasoning is not a fact. You are the last person to tell anyone to look at the big picture, your support for your view is the adoption of the opinion of your parents. And you should be the last person to tell anyone to do research or open books for the same reason.

    Maybe stop being a chav, and reason like an intelligent or educated person.

    Maybe explain why the existence of government programs forces people to give up all passions and goals in life. That'd be a place to start. There should be a hand up instead of a handout, which is why you see many periods of economic growth be paired with job training programs. People don't just magically become skilled and hired. And our educational system is troublesome in many areas and for several reasons. Maybe you should see the big picture and stop saying that the existence of government programs does not force people to give up all else and live off of them.

    More importantly, to my former post, think to yourself what the US would be like if it didn't invest in agricultural education, development, and research & technology. We'd have far more people farming on smaller plots of land and less ability for them to study other subjects. What if we didn't support aviation, or space programs, or medical research to cure diseases. What if we didn't invest and invent the internet? California would be a certainly different place without Silicon Valley. Heck, we probably wouldn't be able to be on a forum with our own computers if the US didn't pursue technology and innovation. There'd wouldn't be the jobs that these things created and lower standards of living that innovation has enabled. If we didn't educated and train our population in the things required to develop the country, we'd be behind where we are today.

    If you like history so much, consider all of the major "ages" in the history of man and how something as basic as their mastering of materials could lead to the rise or fall of civilizations and victory over less technically skilled groups. Better, faster, stronger combat tools may have been crucial through a lot of human development, but now the materials, technology, and knowledge for manufacturing and efficiency of our systems is important to remaining competitive - and these things take good STEM educations. The loss of technical edge over the last 140 years has had significant impact on the UK.

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/freee...nd-development


    It's hard to keep up with other countries when education isn't fostering the population's abilities and R&D spending is plummeting. But keep blaming the governmental welfare programs as the cause instead of the result.
    Last edited by rwh11385; 11-30-2012, 01:22 AM.

    Comment

    • ethrtyiS
      R3V OG
      • May 2010
      • 8147

      #92
      i didn't base my argument solely on family's views and opinions and i sure as hell am not blaming government programs like welfare as the cause of the failing education system...
      you should probably stop assuming now.
      continue to blindly trust what you will. i could care less.

      i feel it to be no longer worth my time nor my effort to arguing with you any longer. what's the old saying...? "don't count your chickens before they hatch".

      '89 BMW 325is | '02 Mitsubishi Montero Limited | '2005 GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax | 2007 BMW M5
      my feedback thread

      Comment

      • rwh11385
        lance_entities
        • Oct 2003
        • 18403

        #93
        Originally posted by ethrtyiS
        i didn't base my argument solely on family's views and opinions and i sure as hell am not blaming government programs like welfare as the cause of the failing education system...
        you should probably stop assuming now.
        continue to blindly trust what you will. i could care less.

        i feel it to be no longer worth my time nor my effort to arguing with you any longer. what's the old saying...? "don't count your chickens before they hatch".
        LOL - coming from the person who bases their world view on the opinions of his parents.

        Maybe you should realize I am saying that failing education brings down the economy and influences the need for social programs. Poor human capital begets a handicapped economy, and also poor humans. Saying that social programs cause people to need social programs is like saying a sprinkler system causes the fires they help control.

        I didn't know you actually ever spent any effort arguing? It just seems you repeated "my momma always said" a bunch of times. Oh, and claiming you were the only person to have ever lived across the pond.

        Comment

        • ethrtyiS
          R3V OG
          • May 2010
          • 8147

          #94
          Originally posted by rwh11385
          LOL - coming from the person who bases their world view on the opinions of his parents.

          Maybe you should realize I am saying that failing education brings down the economy and influences the need for social programs. Poor human capital begets a handicapped economy, and also poor humans. Saying that social programs cause people to need social programs is like saying a sprinkler system causes the fires they help control.

          I didn't know you actually ever spent any effort arguing? It just seems you repeated "my momma always said" a bunch of times. Oh, and claiming you were the only person to have ever lived across the pond.
          lol. either you hadn't read anything i've written or you gathered what you wanted to read and wrote about that.

          and bingo. this is exactly right. i'm pretty sure i mentioned that somewhere in the beginning. you sound like a kid. nowhere did i mention my mommy saying this or that a bunch of times nor did i mention me being the only person who lived across the pond. obviously the education system has failed you. haha.

          '89 BMW 325is | '02 Mitsubishi Montero Limited | '2005 GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax | 2007 BMW M5
          my feedback thread

          Comment

          • rwh11385
            lance_entities
            • Oct 2003
            • 18403

            #95
            Originally posted by ethrtyiS
            lol. either you hadn't read anything i've written or you gathered what you wanted to read and wrote about that.

            and bingo. this is exactly right. i'm pretty sure i mentioned that somewhere in the beginning. you sound like a kid. nowhere did i mention my mommy saying this or that a bunch of times nor did i mention me being the only person who lived across the pond. obviously the education system has failed you. haha.
            Actually, this is what you said:
            Originally posted by ethrtyiS
            there are other things that factored in sure, but most of my older relatives tell me all the time how their economy went to hell mainly due to government reliance. they even tell me that the united states is following in the same path and that 300 years of prosper and hard work are going down the drain. i believe i still have that facebook message somewhere around.
            "my momma always said" was a reference to Forest Gump. Must have been before your time.

            Assumption that you would be the only possible person to have lived in the UK and able to comment on the nation, period.
            Originally posted by ethrtyiS
            you've never lived in england. unless you have lived there or have seen how things work, you wouldn't understand.

            Class of '10 calling people kids

            Comment

            • ethrtyiS
              R3V OG
              • May 2010
              • 8147

              #96
              you must mean "my momma always told me..."

              how does that make me the only person to have lived there when it was directed to you...?

              you've done some homework. good for you.
              it's a shame you didn't do it in school where it counted.

              '89 BMW 325is | '02 Mitsubishi Montero Limited | '2005 GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax | 2007 BMW M5
              my feedback thread

              Comment

              • ck_taft325is
                R3V OG
                • Sep 2007
                • 6880

                #97
                rwh is srsbizness.
                Need a part? PM me.

                Get your Bass on. Luke's r3v Boxes are here: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=198123

                Comment

                • ethrtyiS
                  R3V OG
                  • May 2010
                  • 8147

                  #98
                  oh, he sure is.

                  '89 BMW 325is | '02 Mitsubishi Montero Limited | '2005 GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax | 2007 BMW M5
                  my feedback thread

                  Comment

                  • Ryan Stewart
                    I Love Miatas
                    • Oct 2003
                    • 8978

                    #99
                    Originally posted by Threehz
                    I've never met a single person in my life who doesn't have dreams or who would be content struggling day to day to live a shitty life not doing anything and trying to rely on government support.
                    Everyone dreams, not everyone takes action.
                    Im now E30less.
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • Exodus_2pt0
                      R3V Elite
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 5943

                      #100
                      Originally posted by rwh11385
                      "my momma always said" was a reference to Forest Gump. Must have been before your time.
                      Originally posted by ethrtyiS
                      you must mean "my momma always told me..."
                      I think I can settle this, my money is on rwh, he tends to think before he speaks. Most of the time he provides evidence for his claims as well, I got you this time.

                      Wait for it...



                      Rwh wins again.


                      On a serious note though, EthrtyiS, try to listen to what he is saying. Drop your guard and actually read what he is writing to you instead of thinking of what you will come back with. Open your ears and listen, it's how you learn. So far, I have seen Rwh make some pretty thorough arguments. All that I have seen from you is a "Well this is what I believe and I don't care what anyone else says."

                      "The only person who is educated is the one who has learned how to learn and change.”
                      -Carl Rogers
                      No E30 Club
                      Originally posted by MrBurgundy
                      Anyways, mustangs are gay and mini vans are faster than your car, you just have to deal with that.

                      Comment

                      • rwh11385
                        lance_entities
                        • Oct 2003
                        • 18403

                        #101
                        Originally posted by ethrtyiS
                        you must mean "my momma always told me..."

                        how does that make me the only person to have lived there when it was directed to you...?

                        you've done some homework. good for you.
                        it's a shame you didn't do it in school where it counted.


                        Unfortunately, your opinion doesn't actually change facts or reality like you seem to want it to. Educated people base their opinions on the truth, rather than what their family tells them to think or what they assume. Arguing over the movie quote that is readily available proves the point exactly.

                        If you keep this up, you're going to stay an arrogant fool who thinks his opinions trump facts, like gwb. Again, you should be the last person to question anyone else's education since you are demonstrating a poor learning of logic and lackluster critical thinking ability. Such that you defend your position by attacking other's knowledge based on assumptions (I never lived in the UK, I'm a kid, I did poor in school) instead of supporting your baseless claims with facts or anything from reality.

                        As Exodus_2pt0 said well, you have shown that you have a limited ability to learn because you handicap yourself by what you assume and what you want to think.

                        Comment

                        • robrez
                          No R3VLimiter
                          • Jul 2008
                          • 3376

                          #102
                          Since rwh11385 has gone to the trouble of supporting his position with colorful graphs, would it be too intrusive to ask ethrtyiS to post the Facebook chats that he puts forward as research/evidence/homework for his position?
                          sigpic
                          January 2012 COTM

                          Comment

                          • ethrtyiS
                            R3V OG
                            • May 2010
                            • 8147

                            #103
                            i couldn't care less anymore. there is plenty of information available on the internet for those who wish to look for it that support my claims. why should i do the research and homework for those who don't wish to learn and keep open eyes and open ears. i do my own research with many different sources, mostly unbiased, and i come to my own conclusions.

                            i will however just add that perhaps you guys should buy or rent the naked communist and read the entire book. then come back to me and we can continue this conversation and i'll go ahead and start posting sources to backup my claims.

                            '89 BMW 325is | '02 Mitsubishi Montero Limited | '2005 GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax | 2007 BMW M5
                            my feedback thread

                            Comment

                            • rwh11385
                              lance_entities
                              • Oct 2003
                              • 18403

                              #104
                              Originally posted by ethrtyiS
                              i couldn't care less anymore. there is plenty of information available on the internet for those who wish to look for it that support my claims. why should i do the research and homework for those who don't wish to learn and keep open eyes and open ears. i do my own research with many different sources, mostly unbiased, and i come to my own conclusions.

                              i will however just add that perhaps you guys should buy or rent the naked communist and read the entire book. then come back to me and we can continue this conversation and i'll go ahead and start posting sources to backup my claims.
                              So everyone should research to find information to support your claims? Okay shifting the burden of proof - way to not understand logical fallacies still. You are the one who has failed at learning or being open-minded. Good luck and hopefully you'll have your remaining education catch up with your ego.

                              Comment

                              • smooth
                                E30 Mastermind
                                • Apr 2005
                                • 1940

                                #105
                                nothing like some good ole red baiting while exiting a conversation
                                Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!

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