No more singles....

[slammin.e28]

Hopefully we'll be tossing coin at strippers in the near future....or they'll start getting $5s....

http://news.yahoo.com/congress-looks-doing-away-1-bill-083418974--politics.html

Thoughts?

I think they should drop the penny as well. Slide sales tax in with the price of items, round up to the next whole dollar, and be done. JUST LIKE EUROPE.

[Exodus_2pt0]

Ditch the penny, keep the dollar. Slammin, why are you complaining about strippers? I hear you tuck benjamins in those strings.

[z31maniac]

The brilliance of AMerica, we will spend 13cents to make something worth 5.

[slammin.e28]

Ditch the penny, keep the dollar. Slammin, why are you complaining about strippers? I hear you tuck benjamins in those strings.

Pfft, I don't give them more than they earn....usually that's just MY big ben jammin up their poop shoot.

The brilliance of AMerica, we will spend 13cents to make something worth 5.

You'd think someone would have looked into this and corrected it. If I ran a business this way, I'd be out real quick.

[rwh11385]

While it might be annoying if you dealt with hard currency and couldn't fold a dollar into your wallet anymore, I think most people wouldn't be greatly affected since they do more transactions with credit or debit cards now.

And I've been in countries with low denomination coins instead of bills and it was liveable. Even those without credit cards should be able to adjust.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/07/credit-card-payments-growth_n_1575417.html

Last year 27 percent of all point-of-sale purchases were made with cash and that number is expected to drop to 23 percent by 2017, according to a report published Wednesday by Javelin Strategy & Research, a market research firm.

The brilliance of AMerica, we will spend 13cents to make something worth 5.

It wasn't always that way... http://atlcoin.com/atlcoinblog/?p=1693

From the 2006 Annual Report:

“During the fourth quarter of FY 2006, increases in the prices of zinc and nickel raised the costs of production for the one-cent and 5-cent coins above their face values.”

“Perhaps the greatest challenge facing the United States Mint is the increased cost of producing circulating coinage resulting from the dramatic increases in the prices of zinc, copper, and nickel. In fact, as of the end of FY 2006, the costs of producing one-cent and 5-cent coins were exceeding the face value of these coins.”

From the 2007 Annual Report

“High metal prices continued to have a significant effect on production costs, causing the one-cent and 5-cent denominations to cost more than their face values for the second fiscal year in a row.”

“Steady and dramatic increases in the prices of zinc, copper, and nickel have raised the cost of producing circulating coinage. This continues to cause the one-cent and 5-cent coins to cost more than their face values on a per-unit basis.”

http://josephscott.org/archives/tag/coin/

It worked for a long time but perhaps materials that are valuable like metal are bad for currency which value is printed. Dollars have little inherit value or cost of materials but still represent value because of our definition of it.

But we'd need to change our machines (vending and otherwise) to accommodate different materials (like a stiff polymer) so it's likely to just have the numbers decline into disuse.

[mrsleeve]

Ahhhh the joys of Fiat currency


Glad I a few ammo cans of pre 63 Dimes, quarters, and pre 65 1/2 dollars and a 1/2 a can of pre 72 1/2 dollars. They are still WORTH something.

Heeter we have had this talk, lets not go there again please. I know your views, you know mine on hoarding shit of value, so lets just leave it at that ok...

[Vedubin01]

its pre 65 dimes and quarters. 1964 and earlier. :)

[rwh11385]

Ahhhh the joys of Fiat currency


Glad I a few ammo cans of pre 63 Dimes, quarters, and pre 65 1/2 dollars and a 1/2 a can of pre 72 1/2 dollars. They are still WORTH something.

Heeter we have had this talk, lets not go there again please. I know your views, you know mine on hoarding shit of value, so lets just leave it at that ok...

Shouldn't your hoarding be based on the value to post-crisis environment, not on current market prices that may or may not correlate with usefulness of the material? (What is silver's market price based on?) Is your gold worth as much in Z-day as a cheaper priced material that can be more functional? Or what about hoarding stuff that doesn't need industrial processes to utilize? A bunch of non-functionally-formed metal is a lot less practical in a crisis than any other good that doesn't serve its purpose as currency anymore. Even in a Farbin or your dream of societal meltdown, would any currency or store of value be more desired than goods that serve a necessary need? And would shiny metal be the better store of value - or metal that is functionally useful? It's about supply and demand. What is in demand in crises?

In the aftermath of Sandy, what was one of the most valuable resources besides food and water? To a lot of people it was electricity. Having an off-grid powerful generation source would be a lot more valuable than a bucket of dimes . Heck, people with dimes could pay you for the use of your more valuable (and near infinite if renewable) resource. Guns obviously are also valuable, but I know you already have a ton of those. But energy and transportation needs without relying on processed fossil fuel or centralized electricity? Hard to beat that as well.

And more importantly, does the US making new fiat money take away your ability to collect old coins? Should the US lose money to provide people with make fiat money have higher material cost?

Do you want to trade me your fiat dollar bills for my coins? I mean, paper is worth nothing if the country collapses and this zinc-rich penny is worth something, right?

[rwh11385]

http://survivalcache.com/precious-metals-survival/

3 Reasons You Shouldn’t Stock Precious Metals

The myth that stocking gold and other precious metals as a survival tool is perpetuated by survival blogs and message boards. Common sense shows that’s not a good idea and your hard earned money is better spent on food and gear.

1. Long Term Use

MarketplaceFirst, let’s look at history. You can study any group in the history of the world and see that gold, or any other currency, was never used until well after there was a stable and functioning society, usually with some form of government. Before that there is simply no need. People trade.

In the aftermath of any situation the most valuable commodities are going to be food, water, clothing, other things that human beings need for their immediate survival.

2. Prepare In Order

Survival FoodSome people will say: “Sure, it may take a while, but eventually precious metals will be currency”

I agree, but my question is: How long will that take? Does that mean you already have EVERYTHING you need to survive in the YEARS until then? I sure don’t.

If I made massive list of everything I wanted to prepare and it was in order of importance, precious metals would near the very bottom, somewhere around “Plans to build a printing press” and a copy John Locke’s Treatise On Government (all useful in a budding society, not so much for survival).

Common sense says you should prepare for what you will need first.

So what's the value of the metal in a can of Pre-1965 dimes vs. the value of the metal in a crowbar?
Now which one do you think is more valuable in a crisis?

http://suburbansurvivalist.wordpress.com/2010/04/05/precious-metals-post-teotwawki-i-dont-buy-it/

A common theme in the survivalist community is that post-TEOTWAWKI gold, and especially silver, will quickly become prominent forms of currency. This notion is propagated by popular survivalists as well as a good portion of survival fiction. Usually the focus is on pre-1965 U.S. silver coins, which are 90% silver, with gold being reserved for really big purchases such as property or perhaps bribes (e.g., buying passage out of a dangerous area).

Some also call for stockpiling current U.S. nickels since the metal value is worth more than face value, and at least one survivalists blogger recommended stocking up on U.S. copper pennies (not the current mostly zinc circulation) to make change for silver coinage after TSHTF.

I’m not saying these metals will be useless, but I’ve come to the conclusion that their value post-TEOTWAWKI has been grossly overestimated, at least soon after full collapse.

http://emergencyprepblog.com/?p=42

Well, just use silver and gold, of course!

That’s a very common refrain in the prepper world. In fact, it’s one of the truly sacred cows of the preparedness/survival world. The most popular advice is to buy pre-1965 silver coins to use for buying what you need.

How you given this much thought? Have you given it any thought at all? If you have, do you really think it will work?


So, other than for trading with people that already know which coins contain silver, I doubt that you’ll be able to get much with all those silver dimes you’ve been stockpiling. What are you going to do, carry around a book that tells about silver coins so you can educate the masses? Furthermore, since such a huge percentage of the population will not be comfortable using silver coins, they won’t be as acceptable by even the preppers out there because they won’t be able to use them except among themselves, either. Something is only worth what someone will give you for it, and if most people won’t take silver coins, then they won’t be worth much.

Okay, let’s say I’m wrong about that and there actually is a reasonable amount of commerce being conducted in gold and silver. What dollar equivalent will be placed on the metals? Do you really think it will be the highly inflated values they had just prior to things falling apart? Those would have been artificially high prices. My guess (and that’s all it is since we don’t have any real historical experience to base all this on) is that it will end up somewhere below or at best not much higher than the relatively consistent prices that we’ve seen for decades. Basically, that means silver coin selling at something like five times face value and gold at, oh, say $500 per ounce.

Again, commodity prices are based on supply and demand. There will be a lot of people willing to sell their gold and silver jewelry, silverware, coin collections, etc in order to meet their basic needs. Also, the industrial demand for both will plummet as will the demand for their use in making jewelry, silverware, etc. The influence of these elements to the supply and demand equation could very well keep the price much lower than a lot of people are counting on.

Instead of expecting to trade precious metals or being concerned about a society in which it is functional and organized enough to return to precious metals as trade - without considering the wash of other sources as well - why not stock things that would be useful and valuable?

How much is the metal in nails worth? Which would be more valuable in a crisis: Nails to board up a building or construct something, or a bucket of coins that rely on others to think they have value too?

Especially in a remote location, I'd rather spend it on renewable energy sources than cans of coins. Heck, even my backyard garden is a ton more vital to a crisis than silver. You can't eat silver but you can grow your own food.

[mrsleeve]

its pre 65 dimes and quarters. 1964 and earlier. :)

yeah your right I know I know


Heeter, Trust me I am not going to run out of food or fresh water for a long time in a post collapse/natural disaster/ post sandy kinda thing. Only thing I am really lacking on is long term bulk fuel for my gensets and transportation (we have good riding horses for that though). We are not as nuts as many of the "prepers" that have been highlighted on the TV show on NatGeo even we think most of them are CRAZY.

As far as metals go, they will always be worth something, Pre/Post a Collapse of any kind. While in the short run, your right Goods will be the main stay, but if things turn into a long haul kinda thing a dime with some actual silver in it, will be preferable to a paper dollar.

Besides its just kinda fun.


Also if you have any Pre 65 Silver currency or "war nickels" I will gladly trade you my paper Fiat currency Face vale for face value :) Count it up and I will Pay Pal you +3% for fees and shipping.

[rwh11385]

yeah your right I know I know


Heeter, Trust me I am not going to run out of food or fresh water for a long time in a post collapse/natural disaster/ post sandy kinda thing. Only thing I am really lacking on is long term bulk fuel for my gensets and transportation (we have good riding horses for that though). We are not as nuts as many of the "prepers" that have been highlighted on the TV show on NatGeo even we think most of them are CRAZY.

As far as metals go, they will always be worth something, Pre/Post a Collapse of any kind. While in the short run, your right Goods will be the main stay, but if things turn into a long haul kinda thing a dime with some actual silver in it, will be preferable to a paper dollar.

Besides its just kinda fun.


Also if you have any Pre 65 Silver currency or "war nickels" I will gladly trade you my paper Fiat currency Face vale for face value :) Count it up and I will Pay Pal you +3% for fees and shipping.

If only you had renewable fuel so you didn't rely on a commodity that needed industry to replenish...

So you switched the comparison between goods and dimes and then dimes and paper money? When will gear ever be less valuable (price is a function of demand and supply)? And why would we fall back on the notion that precious metals are in fact worth their price? That's an assumption that could make shiny metals with little practical purpose in a crisis worth very little.

Real quick and dirty - gold was the first metal man discovered and used. It was believed to have mythical significance and related to Gods. They could form it into shapes because it was soft and made jewelry. Cooper and Bronze were much more revolutionary though and useful, not just for decoration: hammers, swords, spears. Then came iron and steel. And aluminum. And plastics. And composites. Gold is still jewelry and have always been liked by those in power and with money, but still not quite as useful. Our value in gold or silver is historic but not practical. Why would it make sense for them to hold any value in a new order?

Just imagine in a long crisis how valuable seeds would be. Or livestock. Or meds. What are you going to do with silver? Trade for useful goods. Why not just have sustainable goods?

Think about what would be in demand and what would have limited supply. Why are cigs currency in prison? What would be the new currency? Probably anything that couldn't be produced anymore, in demand, and can "stay" well, or store value. Bullets? Medicines like pain killers, antibiotics? Obviously gasoline is important as is present in many movies and other apocalyptic works, but after Road Warrior, Mel Gibson came to a new society controlled by Tina Turner and a pig shit power plant. Maybe investing in a biodigester is more survivalist than a bunch of silver?

Even normal people like to collect old coins but don't assume it makes good sense in a societal fallout.

[CorvallisBMW]

hoarders/doomsdayers/preppers = crazy

/conversation

That being said I've been to countries with the equivalent $1 and $2 coins and found I preferred it over cash. And since the penny isn't even worth picking up off the street, get rid of it too. The Australians figured it out years back when they ditched the penny; just round everything to the closest $0.05 and save a shitload of money at the mints.

[mrsleeve]

^

In a mass disaster of nearly any kind society breaks down down in 72 hours or less. If we are just plain crazy then go talk to the people In NY/NJ after the big storm. A month or so ago.

Where you live dude is at higher risk for a BIG earth quake. Enjoy being cold and hungry and thirsty, if you dont have the necessary shit in your home before something bad happens. Food and other goods work on a Just in time delivery, time table, in most cites and towns there is just enough food on the shelves to last 1-2 days tops. It will be gone, or destroyed before you can go get it.

Crazy to you, is just common sense to some. hell even 30 years ago it was not uncommon for people to have a years worth of food caned in their basements at the end of the garden harvest. My grandmother Canned as much as she could up until just a few years ago. A skill I wish I had paid more attention too learning growing up. I have a 1 or 2 jars of triple berry jam she made 3-4 years ago around here somewhere she sent me. MMMMM good shit.

[BraveUlysses]

I think he means preppers in the sense of those who are on that TV show...having a stockpile of food (weeks not years) is obviously a good idea.

betting on silver and gold being used as currency in a post-society breakdown is a losing bet.

[quickervicar]

That being said I've been to countries with the equivalent $1 and $2 coins and found I preferred it over cash. And since the penny isn't even worth picking up off the street, get rid of it too. The Australians figured it out years back when they ditched the penny; just round everything to the closest $0.05 and save a shitload of money at the mints.

I'm with you. I like the loonies & toonies