Everyone is scared, everyone has guns.

[evandael]

Do we have a problem, absolutely. Guns aren't the real issue. People are.


I'm all for not allowing those found mentally handicapped from owning a firearm...but who's making that choice? That's the problem.

God, are you this dense in real life? You insinuate that we should strip those people who are 'found mentally handicapped' of their constitutional rights.. what's next, their basic human rights?

[mrsleeve]

^

well if you have ever been involuntarily committed or are a felon you dont have a the rights to own a firearm anymore


How about the guy in VA or was it MD recently that went to his doc complaining of chest pains and because he is a "prepper" his doc committed him INVOLUNTARILY to a phsyc ward. Then the ATF and local Cops use 150 men to raid his house.

I support you mr burns.

I agree that you all live a life of fear. I never ever go out anywhere or feel as though I will ever have to deal with a gun or a knife being pointed towards me.

I hope you never have to, as do ALL of us that carry here in the states hope and pray as well. We are not out looking for a fight.

Granted it dose happen here in Australia, but it very very rarely involves an inoccent. It usually is two criminals fighting each other which I do not care about.

The bulk of gun/violent crime here in the US is also just as you describe criminal Vs Criminal, gang turf wars and so on.

All you pro gun people have to see that something is not right in the USA and something has to change. If you are all not willing to change then the government will change it for you, with gun laws.

Our govt is bound by the constitution and cant infringe on our rights. Does not mean they wont try and haven't already, there will prolly be enough that will remain complainant enough to let it stand though. We have a right to bear arms and those rights shall not be infringed.

A free people claim their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate. - Thomas Jefferson.


A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. - Constitution of the United States of America

The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. - Thomas Jefferson

[cale]

With whats been happening this last few days, are isolated incidence of CRAZY FUCK. No gun laws in the world would keep it form happening. These crazy fucks would get their hands on them though the black market, the deep web, or just go the hardware store and build some shit for cheap as dirt, that is far more effective at mass killing.

But how often do you see hardware store bombs being made and used like this? You don't, it's far easier to grab an easily accessible weapon and do some damage with that.

I disagree that no gun laws in the world would change things. The gun culture in the US has bred a society which turns to guns to resolve disputes, both in defense and in aggression. Guns are not uncommon, and they are not an uncommon tool in a crime. This is very different from other places in the world where tighter gun legislation exists. Sadly the problem is long past resolvable, your citizens will never give up their firearms for two reasons. Fear, fear from the very beast they create by making firearms so damn acceptable. Secondly, clutching to the right to bear arms. Your country is so over saturated with guns that there is no reasonable solution, you can thank hundreds of years of pro-gun culture for that.

[Aptyp]

Guns are fun... I like shooting guns... If need be, I am prepared to shoot a gun at something dangerous...

You put up a a lot of stories of gun related crimes, but as soon as you take guns away people will start stabbing one another... Take knives away, people will bludgeon one another with heavy objects. What then? Laceless shoes, so nobody would strangle anyone?

"Change must come from within". MOFO THEN CHANGE YOURSELF. Don't own a gun and pretend that you live in a paradise. Spread the joy. Don't be afraid of anything. Then call those Connecticut parents and tell them there was nothing to fear as they sent their little bundles of joy to school.

[mrsleeve]

But how often do you see hardware store bombs being made and used like this? You don't, it's far easier to grab an easily accessible weapon and do some damage with that.

Ban guns and you will see this more and more and we will all be wishing it was just guns again. Then what Ban Lowes, Home Depot, Ace, Doit best and so on............... Or how about cars when they start plowing thought the doors at the mall and schools

I got it lets just make laws that say people cant do that stuff

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. - Thomas Jefferson (Quoting Cesare Beccaria and his "crimes and punishment" 1764 iirc )

I disagree that no gun laws in the world would change things. The gun culture in the US has bred a society which turns to guns to resolve disputes, both in defense and in aggression. Guns are not uncommon, and they are not an uncommon tool in a crime. This is very different from other places in the world where tighter gun legislation exists. Sadly the problem is long past resolvable, your citizens will never give up their firearms for two reasons. Fear, fear from the very beast they create by making firearms so damn acceptable. Secondly, clutching to the right to bear arms. Your country is so over saturated with guns that there is no reasonable solution, you can thank hundreds of years of pro-gun culture for that.

Our founders intended us to be FREE, and give the general populace the ability to remain that way.

[evandael]

A free people claim their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate. - Thomas Jefferson.


A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. - Constitution of the United States of America

The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. - Thomas Jefferson

As wise as he was in his time, Tommy could never have predicted a world where any disturbed individual could legally acquire a weapon (or three, or four, or four hundred) and then murder 30+ people at an elementary school.


Drop the old-school rhetoric. It is no longer applicable in modern society.

[cale]

Ban guns and you will see this more and more and we will all be wishing it was just guns again. Then what Ban Lowes, Home Depot, Ace, Doit best and so on............... Or how about cars when they start plowing thought the doors at the mall and schools

I got it lets just make laws that say people cant do that stuff

That's a claim you cannot make. Show me how often home made bombs are going off in Canada, Europe and Japan...they're not. You're making an argument founded in assumptions, assumptions which are not backed up by real world occurrences.

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. - Thomas Jefferson (Quoting Cesare Beccaria and his "crimes and punishment" 1764 iirc )

Hence saying your country has fucked itself from the start by making guns so common. People turn to what is accessible to resolve issues. As for this argument of illegally acquired firearms, yes it's valid but only if you ignore everything before the criminal got the gun. Most guns involved in crimes were acquired at one point in time legally, if that access were not there to begin with the illegal element would also not be there. It's like busting a low level drug dealer without addressing the huge quantities coming into the country. You have to get all the roots out too otherwise the problem will keep coming back.

Our founders intended us to be FREE, and give the general populace the ability to remain that way.

Would you not be free without them? You're sensationalizing the situation by connecting firearms with freedom, freedom can and does exist without guns in many other places, why is it you're so desperate to not accept this? Times have changed, perhaps it's also time to change thought processes and accept that maybe a 220 year old document is not the best source to govern a country by. I'm not saying it should be dismissed, but you seem to be completely unwilling for change to take place because of it. You're stuck in your ways, it's not good for progression IMO.

[mrsleeve]

As wise as he was in his time, Tommy could never have predicted a world where any disturbed individual could legally acquire a weapon (or three, or four, or four hundred) and then murder 30+ people at an elementary school.


Drop the old-school rhetoric. It is no longer applicable in modern society.

so there were not mass killings in the time of the founding. Huh I never knew that.

Yeah there were no murders, or massacres then at all. The Boston Massacre ring any bells. How about the multiple cases of locking people up in churches or homes and barns and burning them down. The death squads that roamed during the civil war.

Here is a list of some of the mass killings (normally govt endorsed) since 61AD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_events_named_massacres

Our founders intended for us to be able to defend our selves from shit like this, and as price of that freedom is the occasional crazy fuck. And eternal vigilance, we are severally lacking in the latter, as 99% of the population (my self included at times) has given that up and said eeehhhhh someone else is doing that (the govt) and that is the problem.

Thanks to the founders massive study of govts past and what became of them. Their wisdom is no less important today as it was then. It will be as important a 1000 years from now as well, its truly timeless. If you dont see this or understand why, then I sugest you study them and the legacy they left us in depth and on your own, not just regurgitate the living document open to modern interpretation BS that is being spewed now. Some publishers are printing the Constitution and the other founding documents with a fucking disclaimer implying they are no longer viable to our up coming generations

[cale]

Our founders intended for us to be able to defend our selves from shit like this

And it's not working

[mrsleeve]

because these fools are attacking places where armed people are not allowed GUN FREE ZONES



You looking at too small of a scope of influence, what the media is choosing to tell you about en-mass. A firearm is used by a law abiding persons about 2 MILLION times a year in the US to defend them selves or deter an a aggressor form committing a crime against them. Seems to be working rather well to me

[evandael]

Yeah there were no murders, or massacres then at all. The Boston Massacre ring any bells. How about the multiple cases of locking people up in churches or homes and barns and burning them down. The death squads that roamed during the civil war.

1) unruly citizenry being controlled by confused soldiers of a failing empire
2) i checked your link, most of these named massacres were by European settlers against the Native American populations (or vice versa), during the Civil War, in a lawless (cough lack of government oversight cough) pioneers' Wild West, or where the actors were the armed thugs of big business (such as militiamen firing at strikers).
3) again, Civil WAR.


i don't know how to fix this problem. but i will say one thing. i went to see the hobbit last night, and it was incredibly unsettling that, if only for a moment, i had to think of precautions to take in the event that somebody in the theater had a weapon and intent to harm.


no one has the need to have a gun; not a police officer, nor a criminal, nor Joe Smith, or his half-wit homicidal lunatic cousin, nor any of the nameless armchair vigilantes waving the 2nd Amendment banner all in our faces.

[cale]

because these fools are attacking places where armed people are not allowed GUN FREE ZONES



You looking at too small of a scope of influence, what the media is choosing to tell you about en-mass. A firearm is used by a law abiding persons about 2 MILLION times a year in the US to defend them selves or deter an a aggressor form committing a crime against them. Seems to be working rather well to me

You're assuming I've made my opinion based on what's transpired lately and made it in the news, I have not. I am clearly against reaction from a single event, look at my reaction to the 30 round magazine ban bullshit. I base my opinion on the prevalence of guns in America, pro-gun culture with defense as an excuse and the crime which occurs anyways despite all these guns out there "protecting" people.

If guns are doing such a great job, are you telling me without them that you'd be seeing crime rates substantially higher than they are now, and that the worlds biggest superpower is so fucked from the inside that it would be on par with third world nations? The guns are not working, and if they actually are as you claim then your country is serious lacking in the developmental aspect of being a developed country.

[CorvallisBMW]

A knife attack in China wounded 22 children and killed 0. A gun attack in the US killed 20 children and wounded 0.

Still think guns don't kill people?

34 Americans are killed every day by guns. 9/11 happens every 87 days in this country.

Still think guns don't kill people?

The US has 3.2 gun homicides per 100,000 people vs 0.1 per 100,000 in the UK.

Still think guns don't kill people?

[Vedubin01]

how many cars kill people daily in the US?

or how about DUI's?

by the way a gun has never killed anyone. People behind the guns do!

[Farbin Kaiber]

Tim McVey used diesel fuel and fertilizer in a rental moving truck.

Banning a tool that has been used in a way other than prescribed will hurt more people that use them in the correct way than the same tool being used by a minority using them the wrong way.

And why is it when the tool does something bad, it's the tools fault, but when it's used right, the operator's fault. Nobody ever says that hammer and that skil saw built that house, but when a gun is used it's not the operator's fault?