Facts do not change people's minds

[BraveUlysses]

do no pass go, do not collect $200, go directly to opening a can of worms.

[Kershaw]

.....which explains why so many people still believe in an invisible man in the sky......

something like that, yeah.

a: "there is seriously no proof."
fc: "WELL IN THE BIBLE IT SEZ SO!"
a: "lol."

[Grand525]

Here is the reason, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

[mar1t1me]

something like that, yeah.

a: "there is seriously no proof."
fc: "WELL IN THE BIBLE IT SEZ SO!"
a: "lol."

And now they're using the Loch Ness monster to disprove evolution.....

"Are dinosaurs alive today? Scientists are becoming more convinced of their existence. Have you heard of the 'Loch Ness Monster' in Scotland? 'Nessie' for short has been recorded on sonar from a small submarine, described by eyewitnesses, and photographed by others. Nessie appears to be a plesiosaur."

Urgh......I thought lying was considered a bad thing in the Bible.....

[rwh11385]

Here is the reason, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Yes. I do believe that's been discussed here at some point and remains relevant to the lack of quality and productive discussions here or IRL.

[rwh11385]

and rwh would continue to argue CO2 is a pollutant,because if you breathe it it will kill you.
yet somehow O2, which will kill you as well, is not a pollutant.
and this is held up supporting AGW, and i am ignoring the facts

I'm pretty sure I breathe in some CO2 all the time. The important consideration is concentration. I just offered to have you sit in a CO2 filled chamber to solve the GWB problem.

[rwh11385]

So does this mean those on favor of banning assault weapons will change their mind based on their frequency of use in crimes?

Let's hope so. Obviously Sleeve will retort that the research must be only in favor of liberal facts but it really is sad for society that "reality" is attacked in favor of one's prejudiced beliefs rather than opinions being based upon facts or reality.

Until we decide to base our opinions on facts and reason, and ultimately our government, we will flounder about on unproductive rhetoric defending assumptions instead of making steps towards improvement.

Well reasoned people can learn and grow with facts, while sheep prefer to follow their herd and defend it aggressively. People like GWB are fundamentally incapable of separating the truth and reality from their biased perceptions. For example, his hatred of Obama lead him to assume that stocks would have to do terrible and we know how that turned out.

If more people are able to base their outlook on facts and want policy to follow reality and not just assumptions, we would be better off. Both sides have the habit of emotions or beliefs trumping the truth, but about different issues sometimes.

Edit: one big element of this problem is think tanks and media which cherry pick data or mislead people with facts by adding skewed analysis to support their existing positions. These are the basis for people to hear and become indoctrinated into a political belief. As mentioned before, lower brow media tends to tell you want to think or why something is good or bad,whoope media aimed at more informed and educated people may provide information with less conclusions or persuasion. Ultimately, Americans seem to be too lazy sometimes to be informed and instead rely on viewpoints provided to them. Even if they don't understand the facts, they will defend their adopted position that their side claims (and lobbyists support) even in the presence of conflicting reality.

[Farbin Kaiber]

something like that, yeah.

a: "there is seriously no proof."
fc: "WELL IN THE BIBLE IT SEZ SO!"
a: "lol."

Who is fc?

Urgh......I thought lying was considered a bad thing in the Bible.....

Sure, you are correct, it WAS.

[mar1t1me]

Who is fc?

I'm going to go way out on a limb and say "Fundamentalist Christian".

[mrsleeve]

Let's hope so. Obviously Sleeve will retort that the research must be only in favor of liberal facts but it really is sad for society that "reality" is attacked in favor of one's prejudiced beliefs rather than opinions being based upon facts or reality.

.

Yes on the firearms thing, the fact dont reflect the rhetoric, terms must be made up, arbitrary definitions that have no basis in the real world must be penned into existence and the REAL FACTS MUST BE IGNORED and swept under the rug so the claims make sense.

We have to cite one time occurrences like they happen daily, and repeat it every hour on the hour at every opportunity, because if you say it enough time is will make it true in court of public opinion.

[Q5Quint]

If more people are able to base their outlook on facts and want policy to follow reality and not just assumptions, we would be better off. Both sides have the habit of emotions or beliefs trumping the truth, but about different issues sometimes.

Edit: one big element of this problem is think tanks and media which cherry pick data or mislead people with facts by adding skewed analysis to support their existing positions.......

Exactly. It is extremely hard to even figure out the truth nowadays~ and it takes somebody with the education and access to information sources to look through it all and sort it out.

If there is some big event and, as a person who wants to be informed, you want to 'get to the bottom of it'- you have to really step out of your way to fact check the news sources. They are getting their 'news' from someplace too, be it the associative press or twitter or obamas facebook posts or whatever, and sometimes they do not practice good journalistic skills and print incorrect facts and information. Nobody is perfect..... but damn they are just gossip tabloids 89% of the time.

I see our country divided into three parts:

1. Those who believe what is in the mainstream media without searching for backup facts/information.
   
   
2. Those who question mainstream media and do search out backup facts, and 'take things with a grain of salt' when they hear it from any source.
   
   
3. Those who know that most people fall into the first category and know this category is easily manipulated through emotion. Then they use that to their advantage.

In the end I don't believe that mainstream media is 'evil'- I think they are in a business just like everyone else. More hype and more emotional draw means more $$ for their advertisements. Do they really care who wins the election? Do they really care if guns get banned and jesus is made illegal? I dont think so- but they are sure glad as it creates 'good news'.

Facts only change peoples minds who care about facts. The argument could be made, especially about political situations, that everything is so theoretical that the actual application of a law or idea changes the whole initial concept of the argument.

100 years ago who read newspapers? Who could read?

While I think it was generally worth it to bring up the lower classes it sure filled up a swamp of shit to wade through.

[Kershaw]

I'm going to go way out on a limb and say "Fundamentalist Christian".

the limb holds, even as far out on your assumption as you are. the breadth and depth of your intelligence is unparalleled. you are truly a master logician.

lolol. :)

[rwh11385]

Exactly. It is extremely hard to even figure out the truth nowadays~ and it takes somebody with the education and access to information sources to look through it all and sort it out.

If there is some big event and, as a person who wants to be informed, you want to 'get to the bottom of it'- you have to really step out of your way to fact check the news sources. They are getting their 'news' from someplace too, be it the associative press or twitter or obamas facebook posts or whatever, and sometimes they do not practice good journalistic skills and print incorrect facts and information. Nobody is perfect..... but damn they are just gossip tabloids 89% of the time.

I see our country divided into three parts:

1. Those who believe what is in the mainstream media without searching for backup facts/information.
   
   
2. Those who question mainstream media and do search out backup facts, and 'take things with a grain of salt' when they hear it from any source.
   
   
3. Those who know that most people fall into the first category and know this category is easily manipulated through emotion. Then they use that to their advantage.

In the end I don't believe that mainstream media is 'evil'- I think they are in a business just like everyone else. More hype and more emotional draw means more $$ for their advertisements. Do they really care who wins the election? Do they really care if guns get banned and jesus is made illegal? I dont think so- but they are sure glad as it creates 'good news'.

Facts only change peoples minds who care about facts. The argument could be made, especially about political situations, that everything is so theoretical that the actual application of a law or idea changes the whole initial concept of the argument.

100 years ago who read newspapers? Who could read?

While I think it was generally worth it to bring up the lower classes it sure filled up a swamp of shit to wade through.

Have you read the Ryan Holiday experiment?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthi...imes-and-more/

Oh well. To see how poorly people fact check, just watch news feed and everyone sharing fake quotes. Or repost this status to protect yourself from Facebook. It's the modern stupid forwarded email that a quick snopes check could invalidate. It's scary to think that blogs repeat this shit and people read it every day. And takes over the media. And tinfoil hat wearers believe in conspiracy based on questions without factual basis and in spite of true facts.

[RawToast]

I don't believe this