Spike in gun deaths after BG checks eliminated

[DER E30]

I don't know about other states, but in Washington, when you do the papers for a Ccw license, you sign a paper that says they will look up your medical and dshs records... Among other things such as he local and FBI bg check... I'll post the law later when I get home and look it up.

Edit: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.097

"(1) The department of social and health services, mental health institutions, and other health care facilities shall, upon request of a court or law enforcement agency, supply such relevant information as is necessary to determine the eligibility of a person to possess a pistol or to be issued a concealed pistol license under RCW 9.41.070 or to purchase a pistol under RCW 9.41.090.

(2) Mental health information received by: (a) The department of licensing pursuant to RCW 9.41.047 or 9.41.173; (b) an issuing authority pursuant to RCW 9.41.047 or 9.41.070; (c) a chief of police or sheriff pursuant to RCW 9.41.090 or 9.41.173; (d) a court or law enforcement agency pursuant to subsection (1) of this section, shall not be disclosed except as provided in RCW 42.56.240(4)."

[Farbin Kaiber]

Looks like smooth is trying to mix up my hypothetical and a real news article.

[smooth]

Spike in gun deaths after BG checks eliminated

Your hypothetical sounds close to what happened but I based my reply on the article. My response applies to either scenario. If someone is expressing depression and possible suicidal ideations and requesting antidepressives then it's not a bad idea to limit his or her access to guns for a few days.


EDIT: if you misunderstand the term "clinical depression" to mean what Farbin Kaiber wrote, someone goes into a doctor's office and says he's sad and asks for Xanax, then limiting their access to guns until further formal evaluation would be confusing. If, however, you use the term correctly it makes more sense:

Doctors use the term "clinical depression" to describe the more severe form of depression also known as "major depression" or "major depressive disorder."

For a diagnosis of clinical depression, you must meet the symptom criteria spelled out in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). The DSM is a guidebook used to diagnose mental illness in the United States.

Clinical depression symptoms may include:

Depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day
Loss of interest or pleasure in most activities
Significant weight loss or gain
Sleeping too much or not being able to sleep nearly every day
Slowed thinking or movement that others can see
Fatigue or low energy nearly every day
Feelings of worthlessness or inappropriate guilt
Loss of concentration or indecisiveness
Recurring thoughts of death or suicide
To meet the criteria for clinical depression (called major depression in the DSM), you must have five or more of the above symptoms over a two-week period. At least one of the symptoms must be either a depressed mood or a loss of interest or pleasure. Keep in mind, some types of depression may not fit this strict definition.

Clinical depression causes noticeable disruptions in daily life, such as work, school or social activities. It can affect people of any age or sex, including children. It isn't the same as depression caused by a loss (such as the death of a loved one), substance abuse or a medical condition such as a thyroid disorder.

-- http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...n/faq-20057770

[mrsleeve]

really a scrip for Prozac should D/Q one from owning a firearm??????

I suppose then all their other constitutional rights should be suspended too then correct???


SO you think because someone is feeling a little sad that should be the qualifying criteria for revocation of firearms rights, Vs the current involuntary committal for violent or unstable mental conditions and evaluation. Yeah your right, I am sad my believed dog died, = Violent schizophrenic tendencies

[smooth]

suicidal ideations are more than mere expressions of sadness. when we evaluate someone for risk of suicide they need to be very clear about their intentions, whether they have a carefully formulated plan, and whether they have any previous attempts.

as I wrote about the article, reactionaries like mrsleeve will read into that article what they want to whereas hopefully more sensible people will acknowledge that there is a real issue with a real suicide risk or someone diagnosed with schizophrenia vs. someone sad that their dog died or impending divorce.

the article doesn't say which end of the spectrum the person who has to undergo formal evaluation is on. "psychotropic medication" spans the range from nerve damage pain suppression drugs to full blown anti-suicidal/anti-wants to kill other people medication.

so no, I never said that someone saying he's sad that his dog died should have his guns stripped but I did say if it was the latter, if someone has been experiencing suicidal ideations and/or has a history of violence without proper medication then it's not a horrific policy to restrict access to *guns* for a couple days.


and both of you ignored the interesting point I wrote at the end. the extent of your hypocrisy that you gets your panties all twisted about a policy restricting people with serious mental health issues leading to potential violence from firearms but you're perfectly fine with non-violent offenders being restricted from life from defending themselves or their homes with firearms.

[anabolice30]

Criminals usually murder other criminals. And 60 deaths statewide isn't really that significant. Chicago's murder rate fluctuates by about 50-100 deaths a year iirc, and that is one town, let alone the meth capitol of the states.

[mrsleeve]

suicidal ideations are more than mere expressions of sadness. when we evaluate someone for risk of suicide they need to be very clear about their intentions, whether they have a carefully formulated plan, and whether they have any previous attempts.

as I wrote about the article, reactionaries like mrsleeve will read into that article what they want to whereas hopefully more sensible people will acknowledge that there is a real issue with a real suicide risk or someone diagnosed with schizophrenia vs. someone sad that their dog died or impending divorce.

the article doesn't say which end of the spectrum the person who has to undergo formal evaluation is on. "psychotropic medication" spans the range from nerve damage pain suppression drugs to full blown anti-suicidal/anti-wants to kill other people medication.

so no, I never said that someone saying he's sad that his dog died should have his guns stripped but I did say if it was the latter, if someone has been experiencing suicidal ideations and/or has a history of violence without proper medication then it's not a horrific policy to restrict access to *guns* for a couple days.


and both of you ignored the interesting point I wrote at the end. the extent of your hypocrisy that you gets your panties all twisted about a policy restricting people with serious mental health issues leading to potential violence from firearms but you're perfectly fine with non-violent offenders being restricted from life from defending themselves or their homes with firearms.

for the record I have issues with those that have paid their debt to society having any rights striped for the remainder of their lives. Violent or habitual offenders would have to have a separate criteria for such action I do think.

Yeah if you go in to local firearms purveyor and tell them you are wanting a firearm to kill your self with, more than likely your not getting that weapon today, and your getting a unwanted ride to the hospital.

Here I have an idea why dont we make a law against killing ones self that will take care of it............. Oh Wait.......................

[z31maniac]

Clinical depression to the point that you require medication and/or therapy is NOT "feeling a little sad."

Jesus Christ.

[frankenbeemer]

Clinical depression to the point that you require medication and/or therapy is NOT "feeling a little sad."

Jesus Christ.

The question remains: Do we trust those with an anti second amendment agenda to apply this? I don't.

[mrsleeve]

Clinical depression to the point that you require medication and/or therapy is NOT "feeling a little sad."

Jesus Christ.

Just because your depressed sit on the couch, watch too much tv, are as usefull as a slug and might need a bit of help getting past it either through therapy or a bit of chemisrty now equates to cazy fuckitis?????


I think not


So you have never been depressed for a little while in your life buddy?

[Dozyproductions]

Clinical depression to the point that you require medication and/or therapy is NOT "feeling a little sad."

Jesus Christ.

That term is doled out too sparingly and just to clarify to you clam jumpers, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I was instantly labeled clinically depressed after my first seizure.

[z31maniac]

That term is doled out too sparingly and just to clarify to you clam jumpers, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I was instantly labeled clinically depressed after my first seizure.

Did you meant too liberally?

[Dozyproductions]

yes that's what I meant.

[smooth]

Just because your depressed sit on the couch, watch too much tv, are as usefull as a slug and might need a bit of help getting past it either through therapy or a bit of chemisrty now equates to cazy fuckitis?????


I think not


So you have never been depressed for a little while in your life buddy?

Doctors use the term "clinical depression" to describe the more severe form of depression also known as "major depression" or "major depressive disorder." For a diagnosis of clinical depression, you must meet the symptom criteria spelled out in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). The DSM is a guidebook used to diagnose mental illness in the United States.

Clinical depression symptoms may include:

Depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day
Loss of interest or pleasure in most activities
Significant weight loss or gain
Sleeping too much or not being able to sleep nearly every day
Slowed thinking or movement that others can see
Fatigue or low energy nearly every day
Feelings of worthlessness or inappropriate guilt
Loss of concentration or indecisiveness
Recurring thoughts of death or suicide

To meet the criteria for clinical depression (called major depression in the DSM), you must have five or more of the above symptoms over a two-week period. At least one of the symptoms must be either a depressed mood or a loss of interest or pleasure. Keep in mind, some types of depression may not fit this strict definition.

Clinical depression causes noticeable disruptions in daily life, such as work, school or social activities. It can affect people of any age or sex, including children. It isn't the same as depression caused by a loss (such as the death of a loved one), substance abuse or a medical condition such as a thyroid disorder.

not that it matters much because guns aren't taken from someone on the basis of a diagnosis of clinically depressed. this part of the discussion came about because of a silly hypothetical of someone saying that "clinical depression" was just someone bemoaning the loss of his job and dog. I was pointing out that it's much more serious than simply feeling a little "down" one day and seeing a general practitioner for some anti-anxiety medication.

I said if someone is expressing suicidal ideations (and those are more than simply "aw shucks, I am thinking I might kill myself doc") or diagnosed with something like schizophrenia (a general practitioner doesn't make those kinds of diagnoses and certainly wouldn't prescribe Xanax for them) then they need to be evaluated to assess the danger they pose to themselves or others before they are given access to firearms.

If someone makes a rational decision to end his life that's his personal choice. But he should be able to pull his shit together long enough to convince others he's not nuts if he's really capable of making such a rational decision. I'm not supportive of letting people who are crazy kill themselves or others. Curtailing those "rights" are not the same thing to me.

[smooth]

That term is doled out too sparingly and just to clarify to you clam jumpers, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I was instantly labeled clinically depressed after my first seizure.

1/3 adults who suffer from seizures also suffer from major depression. Untreated major depressive disorders create a sixfold increase risk for unprovoked seizures in adults. It was a prudent decision for the medical staff to make that initial diagnosis until you could have further assessment statistically. assuming you had further assessment. someone talked to you later to determine if you really suffered from clinical depression, right?