Spike in gun deaths after BG checks eliminated

[sumoashe]

Here's a great victory for 2a gun nuts, and a sad day for anyone with the ability to use their brain.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_4876366.html

So a school that's never had a gun related act of violence now has to worry about it every day. Beside's that they figure it's going to cost the school an additional 3.5 million in the first three years to beef up security now. Wonder who's gonna pay for that, can you say tuition hike. Way to go idiots. You actually created the issue you claim to be fighting against.

Look, as stated multiple times. I'm all for the 2a, when used respectfully and intelligently. This is just another example of people abusing that right. And it's going to be at the cost of someone else's life. Cause odd's are there will be a shooting within the first year of this being implemented. For those that don't know, in the first three month's of this year we've already passed a third of the total number of school shootings in 2013. Basically there's been a school shooting every other day since the beginning of the year. And guess what? Not a single illegal gun has been used, all were from so called "responsible" gun owners. Again, way to go. You really proved everyone wrong on the gun debate.

[frankenbeemer]

I'm all for the 2a, when used respectfully and intelligently.

I feel the same way about the first.

[sumoashe]

Here's a little more truth about criminals and guns. From the latest rollingstone issue.

The U.S. leads the developed world in firearm-related murders, and the difference isn't a slight gap – more like a chasm. According to United Nations data, the U.S. has 20 times more murders than the developed world average. Our murder rate also dwarfs many developing nations, like Iraq, which has a murder rate less than half ours. More than half of the most deadly mass shootings documented in the past 50 years around the world occurred in the United States, and 73 percent of the killers in the U.S. obtained their weapons legally. Another study finds that the U.S. has one of the highest proportion of suicides committed with a gun. Gun violence varies across the U.S., but some cities like New Orleans and Detroit rival the most violent Latin American countries, where gun violence is highest in the world.

73%, I was even a little shocked.

[CorvallisBMW]

^ This is why the entire argument of gun nuts makes no sense. They fall over themselves screaming and yelling about how easy it is to buy guns illegally, and how any further efforts to regulate gun sales would simply drive people to the black market. If that were even a slightly accurate argument, the numbers should back it up. Instead you see the opposite being true. It's far, far easier to buy a gun OTC than on the black market, which means that things like mandatory BG checks and waiting periods WILL reduce the amount of gun violence, as proven by countless studies, other countries, state-enacted laws, and every piece of hard date ever collected on the subject.

[mrsleeve]

^

The most hard data and longest running study on such thing is by a guy by the name of jhon lot. Look him up

[smooth]

^

The most hard data and longest running study on such thing is by a guy by the name of jhon lot. Look him up

that's not an accurate assessment of Lott's work

there is no hard "data" because 1) any data he claimed to have had he also claimed to have lost it in a hard drive crash and 2) his work is regression models and theory -- not a "study" in any sense of the word that you would probably understand it to mean.

regression analysis isn't particularly suited for what he tried to do with it. but whatever you should grab his book and try to read through it and when you have questions I can help you through it.

you might be confusing him with Gary Kleck's work but his research has issues, as well.

[The Dark Side of Will]

So a school that's never had a gun related act of violence now has to worry about it every day.

Like Virginia Tech?

[The Dark Side of Will]

Here's a little more truth about criminals and guns. From the latest rollingstone issue.

73%, I was even a little shocked.

The U.S. leads the developed world in firearm-related murders, and the difference isn't a slight gap – more like a chasm. According to United Nations data, the U.S. has 20 times more murders than the developed world average. Our murder rate also dwarfs many developing nations, like Iraq, which has a murder rate less than half ours. More than half of the most deadly mass shootings documented in the past 50 years around the world occurred in the United States, and 73 percent of the killers in the U.S. obtained their weapons legally. Another study finds that the U.S. has one of the highest proportion of suicides committed with a gun. Gun violence varies across the U.S., but some cities like New Orleans and Detroit rival the most violent Latin American countries, where gun violence is highest in the world.

LOL at Rolling Stone.
Can anyone spot the implicit contradiction?

So if violence is highest in Latin American countries, how can the US be the most violent (which is certainly what they are implying).

The duh statement is that a country of 300M will have 20 times as many murders as a country with 15M, with equal murder rates. The country with 300M is no more violent, but Rolling Stone can certainly make it sound that way with their cries of wolf.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Sorry, but I think people are inherently bad and should be severely limited from having the ability to blow each other away.

Is a government composed of inherently bad people going to be any better? It's going to be WAAAAYYYY worse. This is a valid occasion to use Reductio ad Hitlerum.

What human institution has been responsible for over 260M (TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY MILLION) deaths throughout the 20th century?

A) Universities
B) Churches
C) Governments
D) Sports teams

Looking at history books, I think that the obvious choice is that governments have been responsible for more deaths than any other human institution.

[ParsedOut]

[Farbin Kaiber]

Is a government composed of inherently bad people going to be any better? It's going to be WAAAAYYYY worse. This is a valid occasion to use Reductio ad Hitlerum.

What human institution has been responsible for over 260M (TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY MILLION) deaths throughout the 20th century?

A) Universities
B) Churches
C) Governments
D) Sports teams

Looking at history books, I think that the obvious choice is that governments have been responsible for more deaths than any other human institution.

[smooth]

LOL at Rolling Stone.
Can anyone spot the implicit contradiction?

So if violence is highest in Latin American countries, how can the US be the most violent (which is certainly what they are implying).

The duh statement is that a country of 300M will have 20 times as many murders as a country with 15M, with equal murder rates. The country with 300M is no more violent, but Rolling Stone can certainly make it sound that way with their cries of wolf.

we don't generally compare ourselves to countries without robust law enforcement agencies, solid social structures, or capable legal sanctions when we talk about violence in the US.

If *you* want to compare our rates of violence relative to a third world nation's rates of violence and think that you are somehow demonstrating that it's not so bad by that metric you've got another think coming.

The first sentence bounds that analysis "leads the developed world" Brazil is not a "developed" nation
the last sentence qualifies the type of violence occurring in those latin countries -- gun violence

The US rivals undeveloped countries' gun violence and has higher levels of violence overall. We lead the developed nations in overall violence, and gun violence in particular. There is no contradiction except among people with agendas and axes to grind...


btw: brazil has a population of 200 million and mexico has a population of 150 million. not sure where you're pulling 15 million from.

[einhander]

Is a government composed of inherently bad people going to be any better? It's going to be WAAAAYYYY worse. This is a valid occasion to use Reductio ad Hitlerum.

What human institution has been responsible for over 260M (TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY MILLION) deaths throughout the 20th century?

A) Universities
B) Churches
C) Governments
D) Sports teams

Looking at history books, I think that the obvious choice is that governments have been responsible for more deaths than any other human institution.

What's your point?

[The Dark Side of Will]

What's your point?

If you think that people are inherently bad, putting people in charge is inherently bad.

[The Dark Side of Will]

we don't generally compare ourselves to countries without robust law enforcement agencies, solid social structures, or capable legal sanctions when we talk about violence in the US.

If *you* want to compare our rates of violence relative to a third world nation's rates of violence and think that you are somehow demonstrating that it's not so bad by that metric you've got another think coming.

The first sentence bounds that analysis "leads the developed world" Brazil is not a "developed" nation
the last sentence qualifies the type of violence occurring in those latin countries -- gun violence

The US rivals undeveloped countries' gun violence and has higher levels of violence overall. We lead the developed nations in overall violence, and gun violence in particular. There is no contradiction except among people with agendas and axes to grind...


btw: brazil has a population of 200 million and mexico has a population of 150 million. not sure where you're pulling 15 million from.

The article came from Rolling Stone. It was, by definition, written by someone with an axe to grind.

US is also pretty high up in the rape stats and middle of the pack--behind a good many developed countries with more restrictive gun laws for other violent crimes--but that doesn't fit as easily into the anti-gun narrative, so RS won't mention it.

http://www.civitas.org.uk/crime/crime_stats_oecdjan2012.pdf

15M was an example number to show the sleight of hand RS was trying to use to confuse "rate" and "number of incidents".