Another thing Sleeve and I probably agree on...

[CorvallisBMW]

Looks like BLM paid $966k to a wrangler to round up the animals. About he same amount of money they are claiming these guys owe. Also reports of them damaging land, tearing up water holes and fences, as well as killing prized bulls and cows.

Do you have a source on these claims?

[Farbin Kaiber]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/16/feds-accused-leaving-trail-wreckage-after-nevada-ranch-standoff/

First I found in a quick search, but I'm sure you will discredit it due to source.

[frankenbeemer]

Amusing.

[CorvallisBMW]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...anch-standoff/

First I found in a quick search, but I'm sure you will discredit it due to source.

No, I'm not going to discredit it at all. I find this interesting though:

The showdown is far from over. The BLM says it will "continue to work to resolve the matter administratively and judicially," though Bundy still doesn't recognize federal authority over the federal lands that he continues to use in violation of a court order. The federal judge who issued that decision says Bundy's claims "are without merit."

That order from October 2013 says Bundy owes $200 per day per head for every day he fails to move his cattle. That amounts to roughly $640 million in damages owed to the federal government for illegally grazing his cattle.

Think about that. Bundy refuses to recognize FEDERAL authority over FEDERAL lands. That's no different than grazing your cattle on your neighbors privately-held ranch and saying "sorry neighbor, but I don't recognize your property rights. Fuck you."

I still haven't heard 1 decent argument as to why this jackass gets to flaunt the law and refuse to pay taxes or the fees that he agreed to pay in the contract that he signed.

If you, I, or anyone else was under a Federal court order to comply with the law, would we be able to just ignore it? I don't think so. He's breaking the law, and refuses to stop. He owes $640 million in fees for illegal grazing. Why should he be above the law?

[frankenbeemer]

I still haven't heard 1 decent argument as to why this jackass gets to flaunt the law and refuse to pay taxes or the fees that he agreed to pay in the contract that he signed.

Do you have a source that says he signed the contract? It has been claimed he didn't.

[BraveUlysses]

You go pay for something and the salesman tells you it's something like XXX, and it ends up XXX + 14.5%, you'd be upset, right? It wouldn't have been such a sticking point except for him calling out others posting of information.

It's 16040.19 sq. miles, that's a fucking lot.

Thanks Mr Sleeve's nitpicky white knight, thank you for your important service to this forum and for furthering this discussion.

[mrsleeve]

lots of us that us public land in the west are getting tired of seeing gates closed, roads destroyed at cretin points, and integrations by federal employees about what or why we are where we are. We are sick and tired of long held traditions being halted and discontinued on bureaucratic whims from DC or form appointed officials that have no clue about the west. We are just told you dont need to be there so screw off. Not to mention the fed have been buying up lots and lots more land in the western states the last few years at prices that are hard for citizens to compete with

I have issues with not paying the grazing fee, I was considering buying a place with a 15k ac NFS lease and it was about 800 a year. BUT if you decided to not renew it, or your payment gets lost in the mail and is not in on time or any little thing where they could have reason to not renew you, then there was never the option to go back latter and pick it back up.

[frankenbeemer]

lots of us that us public land in the west are getting tired of seeing gates closed, roads destroyed at cretin points, and integrations by federal employees about what or why we are where we are. We are sick and tired of long held traditions being halted and discontinued on bureaucratic whims from DC or form appointed officials that have no clue about the west. We are just told you dont need to be there so screw off. Not to mention the fed have been buying up lots and lots more land in the western states the last few years at prices that are hard for citizens to compete with

I have issues with not paying the grazing fee, I was considering buying a place with a 15k ac NFS lease and it was about 800 a year. BUT if you decided to not renew it, or your payment gets lost in the mail and is not in on time or any little thing where they could have reason to not renew you, then there was never the option to go back latter and pick it back up.

Quoted for what seem to be amusing autocorrects. Also note that the BLM is an issue, it's not a simple case of larceny.

[CorvallisBMW]

Do you have a source that says he signed the contract? It has been claimed he didn't.

Then the onus is on you to prove that he didn't. Every news media outlet has reported on this, the courts have ruled on it multiple times, it's been beaten to death. Of course he signed the contract, that's where the grazing fees were outlined

But let's play fantasy land for a while, OK? Say he didn't sign a contract. That means he's still illegally grazing his cattle on land that doesn't belong to him, without a contract... is that any better?

I'm still waiting for even 1 single rational argument as to why this man doesn't owe the taxes and fees that he agreed to pay and that he has been ordered to pay by multiple court rulings.

[frankenbeemer]

Then the onus is on you to prove that he didn't. Every news media outlet has reported on this, the courts have ruled on it multiple times, it's been beaten to death. Of course he signed the contract, that's where the grazing fees were outlined

But let's play fantasy land for a while, OK? Say he didn't sign a contract. That means he's still illegally grazing his cattle on land that doesn't belong to him, without a contract... is that any better?

I'm still waiting for even 1 single rational argument as to why this man doesn't owe the taxes and fees that he agreed to pay and that he has been ordered to pay by multiple court rulings.

You made the claim, not me. Just trying to keep it factual.

[CorvallisBMW]

I'm still waiting for even 1 single rational argument as to why this man doesn't owe the taxes and fees that he agreed to pay and that he has been ordered to pay by multiple court rulings.

:crickets:

Just what I expected.

[BraveUlysses]

:crickets:

Just what I expected.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25301551/bundys-ancestral-rights-come-under-scrutiny

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25302186/an-abbreviated-look-at-rancher-cliven-bundys-family-history

Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

Water rights were transferred too, but only to the ranch, not the federally managed land surrounding it. Court records show Bundy family cattle didn't start grazing on that land until 1954.

[assoutE12]

So he thinks he shouldn't have to pay anything to raise cattle on government owned land? That is bullshit. my family owns thousands of acres and upwards of 500 head of cattle, much of it bordered army core land, there is a reason there is a fence between that land and our pasture, because it's not my fucking land.

[CorvallisBMW]

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/253015...under-scrutiny

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/253021...family-history

So he's a thief and a liar. Shocking.

[mrsleeve]

Your just pissed off you have seen the the true purpose of the 2ed amendment used successfully and peaceably.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, if there were no arms the govt would have run rough shod over all of them there long ago and the current out come would not be as harmonious as it was too this point ...... A few people with guns of their own forced the armed agents of the state to take pause and reconsider its actions. This is a real life example of why firearms laying in the safes and closets and on the hips of the people are the greatest check on governmental over reach of all, and why the right "shall not be infringed"