Seattle raises minimum wage to $15/hr

[einhander]

You still fail at understanding the difference between wealth and success. And yes, they are smarter and at one point worked harder than all your buddies that make minimum wage that are oh so driven individuals. But I guess we should just take it away from the top 500 and give to everyone else, that's the American spirit.

No, I don't.

I'm simply not arrogant enough to think that structural forces played no role in my success, but was down to nothing more than my own hard work.

[BraveUlysses]

Life's not fair, now let me tell you how it's not right for me to make the same amount as a person I deem beneath me.

[slaterd]

Being excellent at one job does not automatically qualify you for the job above it. This is the mistake that a whole lot of people make. They get very frustrated that they can't get ahead when they're just fantastic at what they do. People have limits and they have to come to terms with them.

I understand this. But you can't disagree that working hard and striving for success will yield better chances than if you were to just come in and be shitty and/or lazy with your job. Managers and executives do notice hard work. Sometimes that's all you need to capture their attention.

Either way back to the discussion. I feel Seattle is giving a hand-out to those that just go day in and day out with their jobs and screw over those who have worked their ass off to receive their salary/wage. It is necessary to keep up with inflation and the rise in cost of living....but I think this is way too high of a jump in too little of time.

[mrsleeve]

No life is not fair, since when its it the responsibility of the govt to try and make it fair especially at the expense of others.....


And Enihorn, if you know so many of these 16 hour days and hustle types, send them my way. There are plenty of opportunities to make a very generous living for people like that, if they are willing to learn a skill and move about a bit.


Brave: I learned overhead terms all expenses that are NOT billed directly to the customer, so the way it was taught to me was that if your not billing your labor and material costs directly to the customers then it falls under over head. Like you do with a construction, of call out services where the customer is billed at an hourly rate and materials used. Not a fixed brick and mortar selling goods and services at a fixed cost regardless of time involved..... Pardon my and one of my mentors (who has operated business for 40 years with over 300 employees and grossing 50+ Mil a year in sales at its peek, without attending a college to lean all these fancy terms) misunderstanding of semantics.

[einhander]

No life is not fair, since when its it the responsibility of the govt to try and make it fair especially at the expense of others.....

Since we decided to have government.

[BraveUlysses]

I understand this. But you can't disagree that working hard and striving for success will yield better chances than if you were to just come in and be shitty and/or lazy with your job. Managers and executives do notice hard work. Sometimes that's all you need to capture their attention.

Either way back to the discussion. I feel Seattle is giving a hand-out to those that just go day in and day out with their jobs and screw over those who have worked their ass off to receive their salary/wage. It is necessary to keep up with inflation and the rise in cost of living....but I think this is way too high of a jump in too little of time.

7 years is too little time?

Crabs in a barrel up in here.

[mrsleeve]

Since we decided to have government.

Ok then how about some words from one of the guys who founded our govt and was a central figure in writing the documents that govern our land.

The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. - Thomas Jefferson

To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it. - Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. -Thomas Jefferson

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. - Thomas Jefferson

A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

The whole Idea of Income taxes were not imposed until the great progressive Wilson Administration, and the minimum wage and other entitlements from his protegee FDR 20 or so years latter. So if your saying govt our govt started in 1912 you might have a legitimate point..... And I suppose you do since wilson was the 1st of the real progressives to get anything done to advance that agenda you hold onto so dearly..... Sadly though progressiveism is not what made this country.

[slaterd]

Yes. Cost of living is not going to inflate by 62% in 7 years.

[nando]

^ I'm gonna have to disagree with this. If you do not put hard work and drive into your job will you have a good chance of promotions and raises? FUCK NO! Alot of jobs are typically experience-based now with a smaller emphases on education (depending on your field obviously). Typically, people who are in the minimum wage level are in the younger age groups. If you work hard and blah blah blah, you improve your chances of promotions of titles and responsibilities. This will only improve your resume and offer valuable real world experience.

So I will disagree with you and say hard work does pay off eventually.

yes work ethic helps but it's not the same as what you are saying. you'll realize eventually that the world doesn't work that way - hard work doesn't often equal success.

upward mobility is at the lowest point it's ever been. you know why all these kids on this forum drive clapped out beaters and run the cheapest parts they can find? because the level of opportunity for them is awful. it's just what they have to work with. Unemployment for young people is something like 20% and the participation rate for them in the labor force is the lowest it's ever been.

Most teenagers are lucky to find a job at a fast food restaurant, much less the jobs we had available when I was young. The only out I see for my kids here are the opportunities to get work experience on a farm, but even that is limited - I was able to work picking berries when I was 12, but those opportunities don't exist anymore either.

now factor in aging and health problems, you have a recipe for disaster.

[evandael]

Ok then how about some words from one of the guys who founded our govt and was a central figure in writing the documents that govern our land.

Mr. Jefferson is not alive today to make commentary in our 21st century political and social climate. But lucky for him you continue to resurrect his statements, furthering their irrelevance.


Lest we forget that he owned people. Or if you prefer, as a 'wealthy job creator', he 'provided a living' to 'wage earners' in accordance to their 'skillset, work experience, and work ethic'.

[nando]

Ok then how about some words from one of the guys who founded our govt and was a central figure in writing the documents that govern our land.

The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. - Thomas Jefferson

To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it. - Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. -Thomas Jefferson

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. - Thomas Jefferson

A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

The whole Idea of Income taxes were not imposed until the great progressive Wilson Administration, and the minimum wage and other entitlements from his protegee FDR 20 or so years latter. So if your saying govt our govt started in 1912 you might have a legitimate point..... And I suppose you do since wilson was the 1st of the real progressives to get anything done to advance that agenda you hold onto so dearly..... Sadly though progressiveism is not what made this country.

too bad the supreme court basically legalized buying votes. The only people with a voice are those with unlimited funds, which ironically are made on the backs of the working poor that they oppress.

I should use a phrase that the conservatives love to use - if you don't like that Seattle is requiring a higher minimum standard, don't come here. :p

[mrsleeve]

Nando: to your other post to slaterd

I thought I was talking about that fact when we were talking about how higher wage earners have been forced to displace younger workers in entry level jobs. There is a major disconnect in the job market, and that is a fundamental issue in and of it self, that arbitrarily raising the minimum wage is not going to fix and further alienate the young trying to get a start in the world ....

[BraveUlysses]

Mr. Jefferson is not alive today to make commentary in our 21st century political and social climate. But lucky for him you continue to resurrect his statements, furthering their irrelevance.


Lest we forget that he owned people. Or if you prefer, as a 'wealthy job creator', he 'provided a living' to 'wage earners' in accordance to their 'skillset, work experience, and work ethic'.

Lest we forget that he raped at least one slave

Let's find other rapists to quote so that we can keep using appeal to authority fallacies to make shitty arguments.

[nando]

you don't know that it won't help. all evidence so far seems to indicate that it will.

where are all the economic ideas from the right? all of them seem to be to keep on with the status quo, which obviously isn't working, or arbitrarily blocking any ideas they see as too progressive (even when some of them come from their own camp).

[einhander]

Sleeve, I'm not going to comment on your cut and paste nonsense. Nice try, dude.

What I will say is that while I'm not pleased I had to pay over 40k in tax last year, I do understand that this wouldn't be the greatest country on Earth unless people like me were paying for it. I've no problem chipping in so other people can live better.

What I do have a problem with is underwriting the corporate welfare state, with its 1% tax dodgers, big agro, and defense industrial complex scammers. These people are rich not through hard work, but through structural shafting that fuck every single one of us. The game is rigged in their favor and all out collective hard work won't change it.

Go ahead and hate poor people. One day you'll realize they're not the ones asking for handouts.