yesterday there was a shooter at Seattle Pacific University who was taken down and stopped while trying to reload his shotgun. only one person died.
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Simon
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How many people would have died if he hadn't needed to reload? 1? 2? 5? There's no way to know exactly, but it would have been more.Comment
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We don't even know what gun he used. But we do know that a reasonably skilled person isn't hindered by magazine swaps. So perhaps if you banned people from being trained well, that might have the effect people are looking for.
Ediy: Saw it was a shotgun. Explains everything.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using TapatalkLast edited by marshallnoise; 06-06-2014, 07:53 AM.Si vis pacem, para bellum.
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The hall monitor that incapacitated the shooter so others could help hold him down was either VERY brave and had no regard for his own life, or VERY VERY STUPID with no regard or his own life. I would put my money on the latter, you dont confront a guy with a fucking shotgun with a little thing of PEPPER SPRAY............ ( I have not seen the canister used but I doubt its a bear spray sized one) Balls made of tungsten, or just stupid either way not something I would have done more than likely.The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de TocquevilleOriginally posted by Fusion
The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-Comment
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Yeah, we know you're too much of a coward to get involved w/o your gunComment
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LOL I would not even use my gun in that situation unless I was cornered and had no way to escape. You dont attack a crazy guy with a fucking shotgun unless you have a massive advantage like a rifle you can engage the guy effectively from a safer range for you. Or you have some kind of huge advantage of surprise. Sorry I am not going to run toward gun fire where there is not supposed to be any, its not cowardice, one of the primary things stressed to you in a CCW course is that you are not a LEO, and your not a vigilante crime fighter because your constable gives you a permit to carry a weapon. That weapon is used to protect your self and in some cases those in your proximity if you wish to put your neck out there. Its a big legal issue in a lot of cases if you go looking for trouble, and you also put your self out there as a target for the LEO that are responding to a active shooter and man with a gun 911 call..............
If trapped and all you have is pepper spray sure then you do what you have to take the chances you need to take to try and live though it. I am not going to go looking for trouble firearm or no firearm, if it finds me though no fault of my own then I will defend myself or family like a pissed off Mama Griz with cubs and your standing between the 2. I dont have a hero complex nor have any desire to live out some kind of fantasy.
Sorry to burst your bubble that CCW holder 2a guys are all looking for a fight and carry for an ego boost big man complex.Last edited by mrsleeve; 06-06-2014, 01:15 PM.The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de TocquevilleOriginally posted by Fusion
The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-Comment
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Si vis pacem, para bellum.
New Hawtness: 1995 540i/6 Claptrap
Defunct too: Cirrusblau m30 Project
Defunct (sold): Alta Vista
79 Bronco SHTF BuildComment
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As mentioned above... it was a shotgun.
Shotguns have magazines, but those magazines are not detachable. Reloading is a time-consuming one-at-a-time process that will seriously slow you down, especially if you haven't practiced extensively.Comment
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So on one hand you say that more people with more guns (CCW or otherwise) will reduce gun crime because there are more "good guys" with weapons to stop the "bad guys" with weapons, but on the other hand you say that those same good guys have been trained NOT to get involved, that they shouldn't get involved, and that it's not their place to do anything unless they feel super-duper safe and all warm 'n' fuzzy about their chances.
How do you reconcile those things in your head?Comment
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You don't carry to feel warm and fuzzy, but you don't carry to be a vigilante either.
What he's saying is that "active response"... ie, clearing the mall in which there's an active shooter is not something that the average armed citizen should try. It's risky enough when teams trained for clearing try it.
BUT, if you're in a situation in which you need that last option, carrying makes the difference between leaving on your feet or on a stretcher or in a body bag.
You need to remember that real life isn't a movie or a video game. You don't know how any given encounter will turn out.Comment
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Let's say for example that 50% of all people CCW (crazy I know!), in an active shooter scenario the person being targeted (in imminent danger) has a 50% change of stopping the shooter right there on the spot, then the next guy and so on and so on. We are trained to leave a situation at all costs with life and limb but if someone busts into a movie theater or a starbucks and he's between me and the exit and I have a clear shot, you better believe I'd take it. You love to oversimplify your snarky responses and fail to use any sort of real critical thinking skills.Comment
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+100
Mrsleeve,
Thats whats wrong with this country, no one wants to do anything UNLESS its happening to them. Call the guy anything you want but hes a fucking hero not a coward like most when SHTF. It amazes me that the same person who posts endless quotes from great men wont do shit when other peoples lives are in danger. To have the ability (firearm) to save lives and instead run is COWARDICE. Its insane to me that you quote statements about having weapons to fend off a tyranical government yet wont fire them a a REAL threat in front of you. I carry every day for myself AND the people around me. I could NEVER live with myself if I knew I had the ability to save a life and ran instead...
I hope I never have to use my firearm but I can guarantee if a mass shooting occurs I will be putting rounds down range. Not because im a hero but because I have the ability to save a life BESIDES my own
Last edited by LSM3; 06-09-2014, 10:06 AM.Comment
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I'm not here to stand up for sleeve, he can do that well enough on his own. However I do want to say one thing in response to this drivel. Why should I risk my physical well being and open myself up the liability to rescue another person who openly chooses not to carry and protect themselves? Why is it my responsibility? I'm not a paid public servant, I carry to protect myself and my family. If we can get to safety, then that's where we're going. Personal responsibility is the purpose here, I refuse to step up for those too afraid to take the steps I have to ensure life and limb.
+100
Mrsleeve,
Thats whats wrong with this country, no one wants to do anything UNLESS its happening to them. Call the guy anything you want but hes a fucking hero not a coward like most when SHTF. It amazes me that the same person who posts endless quotes from great men wont do shit when other peoples lives are in danger. To have the ability (firearm) to save lives and instead run is COWARDICE. Its insane to me that you quote statements about having weapons to fend off a tyranical government yet wont fire them a a REAL threat in front of you. I carry every day for myself AND the people around me. I could NEVER live with myself if I knew I had the ability to save a life and ran instead...
I hope I never have to use my firearm but I can guarantee if a mass shooting occurs I will be putting rounds down range. Not because im a hero but because I have the ability to save a life BESIDES my ownComment
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I think there is a huge difference between vigilantism and engaging a murderer. I think that Sleeve's main point is that merely putting rounds down range can do more harm than good.
+100
Mrsleeve,
Thats whats wrong with this country, no one wants to do anything UNLESS its happening to them. Call the guy anything you want but hes a fucking hero not a coward like most when SHTF. It amazes me that the same person who posts endless quotes from great men wont do shit when other peoples lives are in danger. To have the ability (firearm) to save lives and instead run is COWARDICE. Its insane to me that you quote statements about having weapons to fend off a tyranical government yet wont fire them a a REAL threat in front of you. I carry every day for myself AND the people around me. I could NEVER live with myself if I knew I had the ability to save a life and ran instead...
I hope I never have to use my firearm but I can guarantee if a mass shooting occurs I will be putting rounds down range. Not because im a hero but because I have the ability to save a life BESIDES my own
We are way over simplifying the situation here. If you can take a clear shot without endangering anyone, by all means. However, if you are not in a position to shoot without injuring someone else or are an immediate target yourself, unloading your weapon in the general direction of the aggressor is a terrible thing to do.
Do I mention that even unholstering your CCW can get your ass in trouble if witnesses testify/report that it was unwarranted?
In California, if you aim for the head first, it is 2nd Degree Murder even if there is a valid self defense motive. If you fire more than necessary, that is a crime. If you hit your target more than necessary to stop the threat, that is murder.
The whole system is already interested in disarming the public by all means.Si vis pacem, para bellum.
New Hawtness: 1995 540i/6 Claptrap
Defunct too: Cirrusblau m30 Project
Defunct (sold): Alta Vista
79 Bronco SHTF BuildComment
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