Charlie Hebdo

[freeride53]

We are not talking the streets, this is places of work, office buildings and grocery stores.

Yes - it was just a theoretical parallel.

[Farbin Kaiber]

We are not talking the streets, this is places of work, office buildings and grocery stores.

[freeride53]

so they knew somebody would have been offended, and they should expect to be murdered? yeah, I'm sticking to absolutely ridiculous.

Again, I am not condoning any of the actions.

I am not even causally associating the cartoon with getting murdered.

But look at it this way, drive into East Oakland, CA drive into Compton, CA, into one of the worst hoods of America. Go confront a bunch of armed gang-bangers and insult them to their face.

Would you logically NOT expect something to happen to you?

Unfortunately, not everyone in the world is accepting and has a sense of humor. I sure wish they did! Because I sure as hell have offended people in my life time. I love making people laugh, and always get bummed when I can't get a reaction.

I respect the notion of free-speech. But on the streets, not everyone accepts the notion of free-speech, get what I'm saying?

[DEV0 E30]

Agreed with nando.

Your poking a murderer example versus the freedom of artistic / satirical expression doesn't really line up to me. I know you're reaching, but come on. What takes place in the mind of someone deranged in a want to create a world not of modern principles is not what takes place in the mind of a convicted killer.

Let's break that down.

Physical Aggression.

- You're doing harm to an unstable person, although maybe just an insignificant annoyance. You then give them the opportunity to reciprocate what you've just done to them.

vs

Spreading satirical (AS IN FALSE) comic to create humor.

- The thought of the extremist is that this is an attack of aggression on their ideals... guess what? Not everyone has the same thoughts/ideals... duh. So this isn't in the same realm. Taking thoughts/actions in the name of humor personally is dumb, but we already know that extremists are unstable.


Arguing about politics or religion is dumb, you will never make someone change their views, thus why I refuse to visit this sub often.

[nando]

And to nando and DEVO E30: NO one is justifying the attackers. I am very sorry that you would think such a thing. All that is being said here is that the cartoonists at Charlie Hedbo knew that what they were publishing was going to offend someone, and start some sort of controversy.

If I poke a mentally deranged murderer in his prison cell with a long stick in the eye then unlock his door, what should I expect happening to me?



-S.P.

so they knew somebody would have been offended, and they should expect to be murdered? yeah, I'm sticking to absolutely ridiculous.

[freeride53]

Thomas Jefferson warned us about the rise of the Muslim somewhere just before he had to send the expedition to Tripoli

[freeride53]

Not to mention he can't do the fuckin job himself? Nah, he needs these idiots to fulfill his will.

Fuck your apologist bullshit freeride

Haha thanks for making yourself sound like a fucking retard that you are bro. You feel any bigger yet?

if your god is so sensitive that a bunch of cartoonists nobody ever heard of putting pen to paper is an affront to him, then he's not really much of an all-powerful god, is he?

That's not for me to decide!

I think you guys misunderstood what I said,

First off, I am in no shape or form condoning the violence that occurred.
In fact, just the opposite, those excuses of human beings who carried out the attacks deserved the worst punishment possible.

All I am saying is that when you poke a stick at a bunch of crazy fucks (since fuck seems to be everyone's favorite work), how can you not expect something to happen?

Another misconception that I see being regularly played out in this thread is the blunt generalization of all Muslims being terrorists/insensitive maniacs.
Even the leader of Hezbollah issued a statement condemning the attackers over the cartoons.

It's sad that I am even addressing this, because it is so backwards and such a played out stereotype that it makes me sick knowing a community of (largely) educated folks like the ones on R3V would be making such a generalization.

There are kooks that belong to every religion - however most unfortunately in recent decades, it has been individuals who claim the religion of Islam to be the ones under the limelight in the Western world.

They have exploited the religion through their own mental insanity and cowardly exclaim shit like "We are avenging the Prophet" as their excuses.

Needless to say, there will always be those of y'all who disagree with what I've said, and will ignorantly continue to preach things like "All Muslims are terrorists", or "Islam is largely a religion of violence", etc, etc...

Maybe it's because you had a friend or loved one who died in a terrorist attack carried out by kooks like these, who cowardly claimed Islam as their motive? Because I have friends and loved ones who have died at the hands of these types of kooks & cowards, but I refuse buy into stereotypes.

And to nando and DEVO E30: NO one is justifying the attackers. I am very sorry that you would think such a thing. All that is being said here is that the cartoonists at Charlie Hedbo knew that what they were publishing was going to offend someone, and start some sort of controversy.

If I poke a mentally deranged murderer in his prison cell with a long stick in the eye then unlock his door, what should I expect happening to me?



-S.P.

[mrsleeve]

Thomas Jefferson warned us about the rise of the Muslim somewhere just before he had to send the expedition to Tripoli

[DEV0 E30]

However, I also think that the authors at Charlie Hedbo are in the wrong.
They knew that they were pushing the buttons of extremists by being intentionally offensive.

As a child in most societies, you are taught to respect others, no matter their religious backgrounds.

If it is completely offensive to depict Muhammad to Muslims, why would you go out of your way to do such a thing?
When you know that it is one of the most offensive acts within Islam, why would you make it your objective to do such a thing?

Those author(s) were trying to get a reaction, playing with fire, etc.

No. They aren't in the wrong. Humor does not fall under your everyone be nice to everyone umbrella. You are engaging in the thought to be afraid of those that may do your harm because of a stupid reason. Don't give a religious extremists power over you like that.

I had a large, thought out response to you freeride. Sadly my session timed out. I'll sum it up by stating this. Your "asking for it" line struck a chord. France has a long history of satirical cartoons, they were offensive to all groups. It's part of their culture.

WHY did they do this? Because they were fucking satirical comics, anyone who creates a comic hopes they can making a living from it. They did, they had their artistic freedom to make it offensive. They are also more of men then the entire executive staff at Sony. "I'd rather die standing than live on my knees." - Stéphane Charbonnier, or “Charb” one of the victims.


- You are not entitled to anything but your own thoughts in this life.

- If thoughts of others affect your feels, too bad. This doesn't give you the right to harm someone.

- If your thoughts of harming someone are somehow justified, you better believe the way you think will be criticized.

- Religions should be concerned with what someone creates for one reason only really, because if there is any shred of truth to something, it's the peoples of that religion's job to fix that image or defend with logical explanation that thought. Catholic church rapes little boys, oh they don't? Then fucking fix that problem without coverups, crucify (not really... but maybe?) the ones responsible.

- Most don't care about your religion versus their own as long as they can live their own life, that is if they even have one, nobody is special on this rock so defacto, neither are your religious figures.

- From a scientific stand point, are political comics ok to you? Guess what... religious figures were human beings too and a lot of political chumps say god told them to run for office. Oh look, another false prophet then.

- I hope for a future of humankind that is a unified elevated thinking species without religion that can escape this rock, but until then... nobody gives a shit about yours or anyone's religious figures. There will be comics, there will be jokes for as long as they get a rise from someone.



"Religion, a medieval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms... 'Respect for religion' has become a code phrase meaning 'fear of religion.' Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect." - Salman Rushdie

[nando]

exactly. and excusing them for their beliefs is ridiculous. what if their religious belief (the extremists) was they could kill you because you don't believe the same way? oh, wait..

[Farbin Kaiber]

Somebody could draw a picture of Jesus (or the modern assumed, westernized caucasionified version for that matter) with a big fat Hanky The Christmas Poo smear down his face while sodomizing the Pope on the infield of the Karussell, in the 10th hour of 24 Hours Nürburgring, and I still wouldn't fucking care.

I might even have a beer with the person and learn about where their inspiration came from.

At the end of the day, extremist islamic individuals and groups are helping give every other religion/religious person a bad name.

[BraveUlysses]

if your god is so sensitive that a bunch of cartoonists nobody ever heard of putting pen to paper is an affront to him, then he's not really much of an all-powerful god, is he?

Not to mention he can't do the fuckin job himself? Nah, he needs these idiots to fulfill his will.

Fuck your apologist bullshit freeride

[decay]

If it is completely offensive to depict Muhammad to Muslims, why would you go out of your way to do such a thing?
When you know that it is one of the most offensive acts within Islam, why would you make it your objective to do such a thing?

if your god is so sensitive that a bunch of cartoonists nobody ever heard of putting pen to paper is an affront to him, then he's not really much of an all-powerful god, is he?

[estoguy]

What I hate about this is all the stupid hashtagging on this (and other things like Boko Haram). All this "internet activism" is bullshit. You really want to make a change DO SOMETHING. Hashtags won't save the world. Actions will.

[frankenbeemer]

Thanks for proving my point Sleeve. If I drop my standards of success to zero, ignore the results, and change the stated goal to fit the results then I guess the test was a resounding success.

Quoted for it's amusing hyperbole. Don't you and Corvallis ever tire of demonstrably false assertions and oversimplifications? It's particularly jarring when Corvallis does it because he is so thorough and accurate when discussing E30 technical issues.

Still love you guys, carry on.