Mass Shooting - Umpqua Community College

[cale]

Hollow points are designed to mushroom well. Poly tips are designed to make an even nastier musroom. I'd be willing to bet that a standard fmj round would go through a vest quicker than a hollow point.

And how about the 99.9% of shootings which don't involve body armor? The hunting round is many times more deadly, hence why fmj is at least in my neck of the woods, banned from hunting use, it's inhumane because it doesn't kill. To summarize, complaining about ap ammo as though it's this big scary thing is downright ignorant.

[Massimo]

That's fine and all. But your solution still blames guns. You can't stop crazy. You can only limit the effects of crazy. You have two choices to limit the effects of crazy; burden the crazies or burden the masses.

Life cannot be sanitized.

Yes I do blame the guns because they are too easy to get a hold of. How is not fucken obvious. You can literally legally buy a gun with no paperwork. What the fuck.

Psychopaths are going to exist no matter what, yes we can help them but how many people would be considered psychotic that are not even known about. That is something that can only be controlled to a degree.

Simply put, some basic gun laws nation wide is reasonable and simple to implement, its not going to stop you from owning your guns. It will add a degree of responsibility and account ability, to ownership. It will also make it harder for these kinds of people obtain a gun.

Sure its not going to solve the problem, but it is a step. Please tell me how you think that this step will make no difference at all? It may not be a big difference, but like I said before if it saves 5 lives then it is worth it.

[Todd Black 88]

That's fine and all. But your solution still blames guns. You can't stop crazy. You can only limit the effects of crazy. You have two choices to limit the effects of crazy; burden the crazies or burden the masses.

Life cannot be sanitized.

ARGGGGGGGGHHHHH!

Fuck! Take the gun from the crazy and give him/her a knife. How many people would have died in this, just this, one occasion? I guarantee you a hell of a lot less.

How many people would have ran at the guy compared to everyone that dove for cover? A hell of a lot more.

It take crazy to take a innocent life, from a distance, with a fire arm, no doubt; it takes a completly different sociopathic mind to attemp that same bloodbath with a knife, or a baseball bat, or a hammer.

Wake up! Having weapons available so easily, that have the ability to kill so many, so easily, from a distance with relative disassociation to the victim is CRAZY!

You guys need to get out of the past and stop hiding behind a constitution that was based on an entirely different time in a completely different world.


There, I said it.

[cale]

There are roughly 300 million firearms in the US, do you really think implementing stricter laws on new ownership and acquisition is a significant hurdle to someone willing to shooting dozens of innocent people?

One needs to address this accepting that the vast majority of firearms already in possession are not going anywhere. Even if the constitution was changed, owners are not simply going to turn in their firearms. Talk to some close friends in Canada about what they did when the liberals opened the registry in the 90s. I guarantee at least half of them refused to comply. Now, imagine the same but in a land where they're a right and not a privilege....they're here to stay.

[Massimo]

There are roughly 300 million firearms in the US, do you really think implementing stricter laws on new ownership and acquisition is a significant hurdle to someone willing to shooting dozens of innocent people?

One needs to address this accepting that the vast majority of firearms already in possession are not going anywhere. Even if the constitution was changed, owners are not simply going to turn in their firearms. Talk to some close friends in Canada about what they did when the liberals opened the registry in the 90s. I guarantee at least half of them refused to comply. Now, imagine the same but in a land where they're a right and not a privilege....they're here to stay.

I did not say it was a complete fix, its a step.

Is your solution any better?

I said nothing about turning in your firearms. I said you should have basic laws and paper work around buying and owning a gun nation wide. Seems pretty simple. I don't understand how that is a problem?

Why are you even disagreeing with me about it? What because getting that gun might take a month or two long, which might result in saving a life or two?

Also private sales should go though a dealer or something to verify the buy and seller etc.

[cale]

I did not say it was a complete fix, its a step.

Is your solution any better?

I said nothing about turning in your firearms. I said you should have basic laws and paper work around buying and owning a gun nation wide. Seems pretty simple. I don't understand how that is a problem?

Why are you even disagreeing with me about it? What because getting that gun might take a month or two long, which might result in saving a life or two?

Also private sales should go though a dealer or something to verify the buy and seller etc.

Easy tiger, I wasn't even directing my post at anyone specifically.

I never claimed to offer a solution, nor did you actually present one besides "control". Perhaps if you were actually bring forth a legitimate solution to the problems, then there could actually be something to agree or disagree upon.

Private sales should yes, but how do you suggest to put a stop to illegal sales? News flash, if someone is willing to murder dozens of innocents, a minor firearms violation is likely not their primary concern. Again these are band-aid feel good solutions to give the illusion something has actually gotten better.

The issues are rooted in society, not a device. Look to Canada and you'll see a system where someone who has in possession (not necessarily valid) a PAL "Possession and Acquisition license" can with ease go online, make an arrangement to meet a seller and bring home a semi-auto bullpup .50 BMG without even notifying the authorities. What are the repurcutions of this? When was the last time you saw someone murder a few dozen children in cold blood at a school? Tell me again how it's the firearms fault?

[marshallnoise]

Easy tiger, I wasn't even directing my post at anyone specifically.

I never claimed to offer a solution, nor did you actually present one besides "control". Perhaps if you were actually bring forth a legitimate solution to the problems, then there could actually be something to agree or disagree upon.

Private sales should yes, but how do you suggest to put a stop to illegal sales? News flash, if someone is willing to murder dozens of innocents, a minor firearms violation is likely not their primary concern.

/thread

[marshallnoise]

ARGGGGGGGGHHHHH!

Fuck! Take the gun from the crazy and give him/her a knife. How many people would have died in this, just this, one occasion? I guarantee you a hell of a lot less.

How many people would have ran at the guy compared to everyone that dove for cover? A hell of a lot more.

It take crazy to take a innocent life, from a distance, with a fire arm, no doubt; it takes a completly different sociopathic mind to attemp that same bloodbath with a knife, or a baseball bat, or a hammer.

Wake up! Having weapons available so easily, that have the ability to kill so many, so easily, from a distance with relative disassociation to the victim is CRAZY!

You guys need to get out of the past and stop hiding behind a constitution that was based on an entirely different time in a completely different world.


There, I said it.

First, we are not subjects of anyone so we'll keep the Constitution thank you.

Secondly, these mass killings are happening in relatively small rooms with a captive audience. The perps can clearly see the people who are being killed. More over, this Oregon shooting had a guy who specifically was targeting people who self-identified as Christian. This is is far from disassociation.

[ThatOneEuroE30]

That and guns dont kill people. People kill other people. Guns are just a tool used to do so. Same guy could of gone out with a axe and killed people but Becuase its a gun we gotta ban them.... People that say that shit are honestly brain dead.

[Exodus_2pt0]

You guys need to get out of the past and stop hiding behind a constitution that was based on an entirely different time in a completely different world.


There, I said it.

Please explain to me how the world is any different today than it ever has been. Humans are the same, we have not changed. Those in power will become corrupt, and the system will fail in time if it goes unchecked. If you don't remain vigilant and keep a skeptic eye on those in power, it can and will eventually bite you in the ass.

History teaches us this, we just chose to ignore it. Things get bad, real bad. Then something happens and everything is good for a time. Next step is getting complacent and we start fighting over petty shit again because we forget just how bad things can be, then everyone gets caught with their pants down because shit gets real. It isn't a question of if it could happen, but when. Unimaginable crisis will strike the human race as it has countless times before, usually at the hands of a few select people.

The fact that a place like North Korea exists should raise the hair on your neck.

Also I need to add that I don't feel the Government is out to get me. I just think that misguided, reaction laws will do more harm then good in the long run.

[Massimo]

Easy tiger, I wasn't even directing my post at anyone specifically.

I never claimed to offer a solution, nor did you actually present one besides "control". Perhaps if you were actually bring forth a legitimate solution to the problems, then there could actually be something to agree or disagree upon.

Private sales should yes, but how do you suggest to put a stop to illegal sales? News flash, if someone is willing to murder dozens of innocents, a minor firearms violation is likely not their primary concern. Again these are band-aid feel good solutions to give the illusion something has actually gotten better.

The issues are rooted in society, not a device. Look to Canada and you'll see a system where someone who has in possession (not necessarily valid) a PAL "Possession and Acquisition license" can with ease go online, make an arrangement to meet a seller and bring home a semi-auto bullpup .50 BMG without even notifying the authorities. What are the repurcutions of this? When was the last time you saw someone murder a few dozen children in cold blood at a school? Tell me again how it's the firearms fault?

No doubt that illegal sales are a problem. But and illegal sales is just that bit harder to come by then a legal sale. I know I don't live in the USA but I would not even know where to start if I wanted to buy a gun illegally.

But illegal sales of guns is something that can not be controlled and any better than it can at the moment. You can control the legal sale of guns, subsequently which over time one could predict this would have an positive effect on the illegal sales of guns. I don't claim to have the perfect solution but as I said its a small step that makes sense.

Yes Canada has similar gun laws to the USA from what I can see, but they do not have a history of serious gun violence, unlike the USA. While yes Canada can show it is possible the back ground, upbringing and attitude towards guns and generally others is different so it works for them.

Either way no matter what, steps need to be taken even if they are small. There is no perfect solution and you will probably not see a substantial reduction in firearm related homicides for a 10 - 20 years. As in my first post it just frustrates the shit out of me that every time there is a mass murder with firearms everyone argues about it but nothing every actually gets fixed or done about it.

While Pro and Anti gun are against each other why the fuck don't you work to together for simple laws around ownership. Its not hard and is not stopping anyone from ownership, simply adds some more accountability and responsibility for your weapons.

Is it going to stop someone from buying a gun illegally? No. But i would be willing to bet it would save some lives. Which is better then no lives, which is currently the outcome after every mass murder.

With that I am out. Otherwise I will be in a never ending debate.

[CorvallisBMW]

That and guns dont kill people. People kill other people. Guns are just a tool used to do so. Same guy could of gone out with a axe and killed people but Becuase its a gun we gotta ban them.... People that say that shit are honestly brain dead.

So why didn't he use an axe?

[Massimo]

So why didn't he use an axe?

Just to add to that. If it is just as easy to use an AXE why do we never heard about mass murders with other instruments?

[LowR3V'in]

Obama!

[CorvallisBMW]

News flash, if someone is willing to murder dozens of innocents, a minor firearms violation is likely not their primary concern.

If you're saying that laws aren't effective because people will ignore them, why does that theory only apply to guns? Why not apply it to all laws?