Who agrees with Obama bringing in Muslim refugees?

[marshallnoise]

Exactly. There will always be those in this world who, for various reasons, wish to do harm to others. The best thing we can do to prevent this is to make it as difficult as possible to dole out that harm. Allowing them to purchase unlimited quantities of arms and ammunition is the exact opposite of prevention; it's actively encouraging them.

As I said, the US has more armed civilians in more places by orders of magnitude than any other place on earth. It does nothing to stop these kinds of barbaric acts because these people aren't afraid of dying, and therefore the threat of death is not a deterrent.

Explain to me why these murderers go to places where guns are banned to commit their crimes?

[Wschnitz]

They dont? Im pretty certain there isnt a State in the US that bans guns.

If you are talking about places of business you cant be this thick skulled, no business owner wants a bunch of wanna be army men inside their business with pistols on their hips.

I dont think guns should be banned at all, I love going to the range. But I dont think people DESERVE the right to own a gun and use it. Its a PRIVILEGE and it should be treated as so, with increased gun safety laws or courses you have to take before having ownership. Mental Health screenings, background checks, etc.

Dont worry though, we can just pray away the terrorists and shootings /s

[ahrensNW]

I said I wont respond anymore but this, this guy man. hahahha. Killing fastest growing religion's people which is 25%percent of world population. Good luck with that. stupidity at its highest. You win the trophy.

If you couldn't see my sarcasm I feel bad for you.

[mbonder]

Actually, according to this map 29 of 50 states allow open carry without a permit. There are only 6 states that ban open carry.

[mbonder]

Explain to me why these murderers go to places where guns are banned to commit their crimes?

Actually, the most gun related deaths per capita occur in states that allow open carry


And look, NY, which bans open carry has some of the fewest per capita gun deaths...IMAGINE THAT!

[marshallnoise]

They dont? Im pretty certain there isnt a State in the US that bans guns.

If you are talking about places of business you cant be this thick skulled, no business owner wants a bunch of wanna be army men inside their business with pistols on their hips.

I dont think guns should be banned at all, I love going to the range. But I dont think people DESERVE the right to own a gun and use it. Its a PRIVILEGE and it should be treated as so, with increased gun safety laws or courses you have to take before having ownership. Mental Health screenings, background checks, etc.

Dont worry though, we can just pray away the terrorists and shootings /s

Once upon a time, this nation was not even remotely afraid of guns. Firearms are in our blood and they are a right, the US Constitution says so, and justly. If you want to screen for mental health issues and re-institutionalize, by all means. Do it. That is not forbidden by the Constitution.

Restricting the rights of the citizenry from self-defense does violate the right to life, liberty and property.

[marshallnoise]

Actually, according to this map 29 of 50 states allow open carry without a permit. There are only 6 states that ban open carry.

And all 50, people who open carry get harassed by cops or people who call the cops because guns are scary.

[mbonder]

And all 50, people who open carry get harassed by cops or people who call the cops because guns are scary.

I see you've run out of any meaningful things to say. Simply a fabrication there with no basis in truth.

I've been in plenty of places with plenty of people that open carry, never once thought twice or felt the need to call the cops. The only gun that is scary to me is the one that's loaded and pointed in my direction.

[Wschnitz]

Its not the guns that are scary, its that I don't trust the majority of those who carry them.

I wouldn't trust you with one just after reading your replies in this subforum.

[marshallnoise]

I see you've run out of any meaningful things to say. Simply a fabrication there with no basis in truth.

I've been in plenty of places with plenty of people that open carry, never once thought twice or felt the need to call the cops. The only gun that is scary to me is the one that's loaded and pointed in my direction.

Wait, so you don't think that it's a pain the ass to carry? You live in NJ. Sure as shit you don't see open carry there, but rarely.

It doesn't require much thinking to come to the conclusion that if you make it difficult to open carry (and that isn't just legislative), people largely won't.

Please, let's use FBI statistics too. Anything other than that is open to propaganda.

[marshallnoise]

Its not the guns that are scary, its that I don't trust the majority of those who carry them.

I wouldn't trust you with one just after reading your replies in this subforum.

That's nice. Not based in logic, but emotion. I haven't given you any reason not to trust me. You may not like me or the way I think, but you have no idea what kind of person I am or how trustworthy I am.

[mbonder]

Just because I live in NJ doesn't mean I haven't visited many of the other states in the nation where many people open carry.

What FBI statistics are you looking for? I'll find whatever you want because it all refutes your argument that more guns will create a safer nation.

And to be clear, I'm not in favor of banning guns completely. I'm in favor of banning military type assault weapons, just like the type used to kill people in the latest shooting. No individual person needs to own these weapons. I have no problem allowing the public to own handguns, rifles, and shotguns, weapons that can be used for home defense as well as hunting, and target shooting.

My reasoning behind this belief is that I don't want to have any citizens that have the ability to mow down dozens of people in 2.3 seconds. Those type of weapons should be military issue only, where they can be used to protect the country in foreign conflicts.

[CorvallisBMW]

Laws do not allow open carry of any guns in California, most states make conceal carry difficult to obtain. So all those guns are at home and are unavailable when shit hits the fan.

The effect is a ban from having firearms where they could be useful; in public.

So a ban on open carry in one state means a total ban on all weapons across the entire country? That's an interesting theory you have... :loco:

Once upon a time, this nation was not even remotely afraid of guns. Firearms are in our blood and they are a right, the US Constitution says so, and justly. If you want to screen for mental health issues and re-institutionalize, by all means. Do it. That is not forbidden by the Constitution.

Restricting the rights of the citizenry from self-defense does violate the right to life, liberty and property.

Actually the 2A guaranties a collective right to firearm ownership, not an individual one, as has been ruled by SCOTUS for over 100 years. Even the most recent and most liberal (conservative-driven) interpretation of the 2A, in the 2008 Heller decision, found that the only "gun control" laws which were unconstitutional were the ones that included an outright ban on guns. All other forms of gun control including waiting periods, background checks, licensing, safe storage, training, registration, etc. were ruled as 100% constitutional, even by the court's most conservative justice (Scalia).

So, given that, where did you get the idea that any gun control is in violation of the 2A? Because that's clearly not the interpretation of any judicial ruling ever in the history of the country.

Please, let's use FBI statistics too. Anything other than that is open to propaganda.

OK, let's do that.

In the most recent year that statistics are available (2013) the FBI recorded 8,454 murders by firearm. In that same year they recorded 223 justifiable homicides (defensive gun uses) by firearm. So based on the stats that you want us to use, a gun is 38 times more likely to be used in a murder than in self defense.

[marshallnoise]

Just because I live in NJ doesn't mean I haven't visited many of the other states in the nation where many people open carry.

What FBI statistics are you looking for? I'll find whatever you want because it all refutes your argument that more guns will create a safer nation.

And to be clear, I'm not in favor of banning guns completely. I'm in favor of banning military type assault weapons, just like the type used to kill people in the latest shooting. No individual person needs to own these weapons. I have no problem allowing the public to own handguns, rifles, and shotguns, weapons that can be used for home defense as well as hunting, and target shooting.

My reasoning behind this belief is that I don't want to have any citizens that have the ability to mow down dozens of people in 2.3 seconds. Those type of weapons should be military issue only, where they can be used to protect the country in foreign conflicts.

Go to the FBI for your sources, you'll find you might not be correct in your assumptions.

And there is no such thing as an assault weapon that a citizen can purchase. AR15s are civilian m16s that are rifles or carbines (a shorter rifle). They only shoot one bullet at a time. Full automatic weapons (as in, hold the trigger down and it automatically cycles and fires again and again) are already illegal. So if someone modifies their firearm to do so, they are breaking a law already. Not much you can do about that besides knocking down doors daily and doing inspections.

Open carry is stigmatized man, no two ways about that.

[marshallnoise]

So a ban on open carry in one state means a total ban on all weapons across the entire country? That's an interesting theory you have... :loco:

You are twisting words. Just as usual. You can reread if you would like.

Actually the 2A guaranties a collective right to firearm ownership, not an individual one, as has been ruled by SCOTUS for over 100 years. Even the most recent and most liberal (conservative-driven) interpretation of the 2A, in the 2008 Heller decision, found that the only "gun control" laws which were unconstitutional were the ones that included an outright ban on guns. All other forms of gun control including waiting periods, background checks, licensing, safe storage, training, registration, etc. were ruled as 100% constitutional, even by the court's most conservative justice (Scalia).

So, given that, where did you get the idea that any gun control is in violation of the 2A? [u]Because that's clearly not the interpretation of any judicial ruling ever in the history of the country.[u/]

I never said gun control is a ban on second amendment rights.

OK, let's do that.

In the most recent year that statistics are available (2013) the FBI recorded 8,454 murders by firearm. In that same year they recorded 223 justifiable homicides (defensive gun uses) by firearm. So based on the stats that you want us to use, a gun is 38 times more likely to be used in a murder than in self defense.

Congratulations, you made a leap of logic that an inanimate object is responsible for committing crimes. You aren't rational enough to have a conversation with. Sorry man.