Who agrees with Obama bringing in Muslim refugees?

[mbonder]

Go to the FBI for your sources, you'll find you might not be correct in your assumptions.

And there is no such thing as an assault weapon that a citizen can purchase. AR15s are civilian m16s that are rifles or carbines (a shorter rifle). They only shoot one bullet at a time. Full automatic weapons (as in, hold the trigger down and it automatically cycles and fires again and again) are already illegal. So if someone modifies their firearm to do so, they are breaking a law already. Not much you can do about that besides knocking down doors daily and doing inspections.

Open carry is stigmatized man, no two ways about that.

What assumptions am I incorrect about? Throw up a graph or something to support what you are saying.

AR15s still fire a bullet that is much larger in size and meant for military operations, which I don't think the public should have, regardless of whether you need to pull the trigger once or multiple times to fire more bullets.

Just explain why anyone needs a bullet larger than a shotgun shell?

And the fact that people can modify a semi-automatic weapon to make it an automatic is reason enough that the semi-automatic variety need not be sold to the general public.

[marshallnoise]

What assumptions am I incorrect about? Throw up a graph or something to support what you are saying.

AR15s still fire a bullet that is much larger in size and meant for military operations, which I don't think the public should have, regardless of whether you need to pull the trigger once or multiple times to fire more bullets.

Just explain why anyone needs a bullet larger than a shotgun shell?

And the fact that people can modify a semi-automatic weapon to make it an automatic is reason enough that the semi-automatic variety need not be sold to the general public.

Ok, you have officially admitted you don't know shit about firearms. A propane tank for your BBQ can be modified to be a mass killer too. No point in continuing this discussion.

[cale]

I said I wont respond anymore but this, this guy man. hahahha. Killing fastest growing religion's people which is 25%percent of world population. Good luck with that. stupidity at its highest. You win the trophy.

Your inability to discern sarcasm is very telling, and seems to mesh quite well with your lack of ability to produce a sound rational argument. The average IQ went up when you left this thread, please keep it that way.

[mbonder]

Ok, you have officially admitted you don't know shit about firearms. A propane tank for your BBQ can be modified to be a mass killer too. No point in continuing this discussion.

Except there aren't many instances of people doing that. There are however many instances of people taking guns and killing others. Apples to apples comparisons are more valid, your comparison isn't.

All I wanted was an explanation of why the general public needs to own an AR15, which essentially was designed as a military weapon. I also asked what FBI statistics I was missing that would have made my discussion incorrect, you haven't provided that either.

You can make as many personal attacks as you want but that doesn't cover the fact that you haven't answered the questions being asked or provided actual factual evidence to support your arguments.

[marshallnoise]

Except there aren't many instances of people doing that. There are however many instances of people taking guns and killing others. Apples to apples comparisons are more valid, your comparison isn't.

All I wanted was an explanation of why the general public needs to own an AR15, which essentially was designed as a military weapon. I also asked what FBI statistics I was missing that would have made my discussion incorrect, you haven't provided that either.

You can make as many personal attacks as you want but that doesn't cover the fact that you haven't answered the questions being asked or provided actual factual evidence to support your arguments.

An AR-15 shoots a bullet about the size of a pea. There is no dicernable difference between a 243 Winchester bullet and a .223/5.56mm bullet.

Discussing this with someone as ignorant of firearms, in the mechanical, is tough enough. Engaging in rational discussion about why one rifle is worse than another based on your emotions is just stupid.

Cars kill more people than guns every year. Shit, so do spoons. Death cares not by which method it comes.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[marshallnoise]

The worst part about this whole discussion is that none of the people advocating banning firearms in some fashion (or heavy restriction, effectively the same thing) realize they are letting terrorists and mass shooters off the hook.

The person pulled the trigger. It didn't pull itself. The rational mind is the only thing that can fix this. And an unarmed rational mind is defenseless against the irrational mind who doesn't give a shit about laws in the first place. Arm rational people.

[ThatOneEuroE30]

See I think the banning of certain guns or any guns is stupid. I'm certain If I put 2 in your chest and one in your dome you wont give a fuck what kind of gun it is. You still got shot and thats all that matters. Also Guns don't have hearts or brains they are a machine designed to kill and they don't discriminate what they kill. So to say its the guns killing people is idiotic. It people killing other people and using a tool designed to do so. If everyone was going around getting shanked people would be trying to ban knives. Its the ignorant little city bitches that have no clue what guns are really needed for. When someone is breaking into their house I bet they're gonna wish they wouldn't have voted to ban guns. Imagine what life would be like for those who live off that land if they couldn't own a gun. Tighter laws should be put in place but to out right ban them is stupid and against our 2nd amendment rights.

[ahrensNW]

All I wanted was an explanation of why the general public needs to own an AR15, which essentially was designed as a military weapon. I also asked what FBI statistics I was missing that would have made my discussion incorrect, you haven't provided that either.

I feel as though you get all of your information about the "scary black guns" from the videos of ar's shooting cinder blacks and cracking them. If you think an AR a powerful gun I'll take a video of a cinder block the next time I go out and shoot my 7mm rem mag. And shit, that's only an elk gun. The biggest argument for why we should own guns is self defense. I could stand my own in a fight if someone broke into my home, but do you know what would really give me an advantage if someone attacked me? Go ahead. Guess.

[mbonder]

I'm going to rephrase what I said earlier because it didn't get at what I wanted it to. My point about the AR-15 is the bullet velocity which allows it to pierce thicker materials (like body armor, which is why it is used in the military where that might be necessary).

The Remington 44 Magnum fires at about 1700 feet/sec compared to the AR, which fires at anywhere from 2700-3200 feet/sec depending upon the barrel length. Why is it necessary to have such a weapon?

And as for vehicle deaths vs. gun deaths, the projected statistic for 2016 is actually that gun deaths will surpass vehicle deaths. Currently they are nearly even at 32,000 and change deaths each per year.

I couldn't find the FBI data on spoon deaths though...

And Euro E30, if you scroll up you'll see that I'm not talking about banning all guns and most people in this thread aren't talking that either. I also don't live in a city, in fact living a good portion of my existence in Millstone, NJ, which is NJ farmland, much less city than Omaha.

[ahrensNW]

I'm going to rephrase what I said earlier because it didn't get at what I wanted it to. My point about the AR-15 is the bullet velocity which allows it to pierce thicker materials (like body armor, which is why it is used in the military where that might be necessary).

That must be some very thin body armor. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

[mbonder]

I feel as though you get all of your information about the "scary black guns" from the videos of ar's shooting cinder blacks and cracking them. If you think an AR a powerful gun I'll take a video of a cinder block the next time I go out and shoot my 7mm rem mag. And shit, that's only an elk gun. The biggest argument for why we should own guns is self defense. I could stand my own in a fight if someone broke into my home, but do you know what would really give me an advantage if someone attacked me? Go ahead. Guess.

Which is why I am in favor of anyone owning a hand gun if they so choose. As EuroE30 stated in his post, you can put a bullet in anyone's head with any gun so you should be just as safe with a glock 9mm.

[marshallnoise]

I'm going to rephrase what I said earlier because it didn't get at what I wanted it to. My point about the AR-15 is the bullet velocity which allows it to pierce thicker materials (like body armor, which is why it is used in the military where that might be necessary).

The Remington 44 Magnum fires at about 1700 feet/sec compared to the AR, which fires at anywhere from 2700-3200 feet/sec depending upon the barrel length. Why is it necessary to have such a weapon?

And as for vehicle deaths vs. gun deaths, the projected statistic for 2016 is actually that gun deaths will surpass vehicle deaths. Currently they are nearly even at 32,000 and change deaths each per year.

I couldn't find the FBI data on spoon deaths though...

And Euro E30, if you scroll up you'll see that I'm not talking about banning all guns and most people in this thread aren't talking that either. I also don't live in a city, in fact living a good portion of my existence in Millstone, NJ, which is NJ farmland, much less city than Omaha.

Why are you comparing a handgun round to a rifle round? Do you understand the ballistics? Almost any big game rifle will pierce personnel armor. And not all AR-15 rounds are capable of such a feat anyway.

Your stats contradict the 2013 number Corvallis pulled up that says 8,300 or so a year for gun deaths. You are telling me that those numbers have quadrupled in 3 years?

[marshallnoise]

Which is why I am in favor of anyone owning a hand gun if they so choose. As EuroE30 stated in his post, you can put a bullet in anyone's head with any gun so you should be just as safe with a glock 9mm.

Yet hand gun crime is something like 10 times more prevalent than rifle crime. So what the fuck?

Edit:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

Scratch that. 20 times more frequently than hand guns (Corvallis, this is how you analyze data).

And here is an article that came up immediately from an incredibly left leaning publication. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/su...myth.html?_r=0

[ahrensNW]

Which is why I am in favor of anyone owning a hand gun if they so choose. As EuroE30 stated in his post, you can put a bullet in anyone's head with any gun so you should be just as safe with a glock 9mm.

Does not compute. AR'S are a great choice for self defense. It's what they're designed for. It doesn't make sense to me why you would promote owning a pistol but not an AR. They're smaller, just as/more powerful, and can be used in far more dangerous ways. By your argument they should be much more illegal.

[cale]

I'm going to rephrase what I said earlier because it didn't get at what I wanted it to. My point about the AR-15 is the bullet velocity which allows it to pierce thicker materials (like body armor, which is why it is used in the military where that might be necessary).

The Remington 44 Magnum fires at about 1700 feet/sec compared to the AR, which fires at anywhere from 2700-3200 feet/sec depending upon the barrel length. Why is it necessary to have such a weapon?

And 22-250, a very common hunting calibre, is capable of over 4000 fps. What's your point? If your concern is taking away calibre's which can penetrate body armor that police use, and your argument is to take away .223 ar15's well then you're an idiot. You've chosen a calibre which barely gets the job done, there are much more efficient ways to punch through armor. Police use vests which are rated for knives and small calibre hand guns. If their aim was to stop rifle projectiles, they'd switch to plate carriers. The vests police use are typically level 2, and a large calibre hunting rifle will put a round clean through both the front/back of a vest and the wearer in between.

You're arguing something which you don't have a very solid knowledge of.