Hillary Sucks.

[BraveUlysses]

Not to mention most of the billionaires aren't earning a billion a year, their wealth is most certainly tied to ownership of stocks or businesses that are worth a lot of money.

You would only vote for the rich? So HRC has your vote?

What? How on earth are you getting that from my comment? for the twentieth time, i'm not voting for either of these candidates.

Part of the reason that trump claims that he's a credible, qualified candidate is because he's a self-made billionaire. My assertion is that he's not as wealthy as he claims to be.

[TimeMachinE30]

He's not releasing them because he's not as wealthy as he likes to portray himself.

You would only vote for the rich? So HRC has your vote?

[TimeMachinE30]

I did a quick math check, and if he were, as he claimed, to have made 9xx,000,000 last year it wouldn't be a huge impact on the budget at normal tax rates. But let's imagine that someone making one billion each year had an effective tax rate of 75%, and then you realize that our entire national debt would be gone with a mere 31,000 taxpayers of that type if everyone else paid nothing (not that everyone should pay nothing). It's also safe to assume that a couple with no dependants can comfortably live on 150,000,000 annual income.

Now, take that presumptive tax payment, compare it to what you paid last year all in, and see just how many taxpayers it would take to just wash the total debt. It's simply insane, the people with average incomes just can't make a dent in it, even if they were also taxed at 75%.

31,000 billionaires just in our country? And your adjective "mere" to down play the number.. mere 31,000 billionaires... do you have a grasp of numbers? how many billionaires in the world are there, let alone our country? and you want 31,000 of them here.. would you argue against the income disparity and how would 31,000 billionaires affect your cry of income disparity even if you made a million a year?

So you agree the others, those who are NOT bringing in the billion a year should pay something. You deciding that? Or who made you czar?

Can live comfortably on an income of 150,000 with no dependents? Who decided this? You buy, import, sell and keep cars. I think you have too many. Or who decides? Maybe HRC should.. she seems straight as an arrow? Or one of her appointees?

Your stance is "they", those mere 31,000 billionaires, should pay all the taxes because it is easier for them and would be too tough for someone making less than one billion a year.. so you want others to pay for you? The infrastructure you rely on needs to be paid for someone else, not you. No skin in the game? Sounds selfish? That will raise your income, though, without those pesky taxes? But the income disparity with all those billionaires, you are still poor right? What is simply insane?

Another part of your blindness comes from the idea that the 31,000 billionaires will pay down our national debt. There is the income, you seem to have that one taken care of.. tax all the billionaires 75%. The other side of the issue is the out-go, the expense. So we are now debt free thanks to those 31,000 billionaires. We can keep spending their money since debt is paid and we are going keep collecting their 75%, the fair share?


Your quick math check needs checked. And don't be quick about it. Take time to think it over.

[TimeMachinE30]

The restraint he's showing is not releasing his tax returns.

Even though I doubt he can do much more damage now after he pretty much bragged he doesn't pay any federal taxes. How does that feel guys? All of us are picking up the hundreds of millions he evades.

If you think we need a just a few extra million, you are missing a big part of the picture.

The laws are there. Folks use his bankruptcy claims against him. It is the law and allowed. How many people do you know have claimed bankruptcy or do you not affiliate with such undesirables? Just like HRC, which tax returns is she sharing? The CF or her personal? If you think she is not using the IRS code and her connections to their fullest potential, that also is foolish. And this is the same IRS that was caught red handed targeting groups that were not with the current administration. So how much trust can we put in the IRS, the tax code and their application of it?

This is also why many folks don't use turbotax with free eFile. A simple program does not keep up with the ever changing landscape of tax law. It is worth it to hire a CPA in those cases, especially when assets are high.

And the tax law.. like the laws that are written in our own state. Mike Miller, Joe Valerio.. they are legislators. They are also practicing defense attorneys. Is that a conflict of interest when a defense attorney is writing the DUI statute? Who is writing tax law? Who is enforcing it?

[marshallnoise]

Sure you can. Just because something is legal doesn't make it moral or just. We've had periods in this country where the wealthy were charged insane percentages in tax... but they stayed wealthy, we had the largest middle class in the world, and income disparity was much lower.

Its immoral to take from one person at the point of a gun and then give it to someone else. The way I read what you wrote is that its only immoral to object to being robbed.

The tax rates were massive, but the write offs were massive too. The effective tax rates were much lower than the publicized tax rates. We still have the largest middle class in the world. The problem is that if you consistently change the definition of what the middle class is or what the poverty line is, you will never be able to go back and compare it.

Disagree. We'd need a tiered flat tax system. 10% of a $20,000 income hurts a lot more than 10% of $2,000,000 income in terms of the affect on quality of life.

No one is guaranteed an specific quality of life. Fairness is fairness, either be for it, or be openly against it. Earning $20K and keeping it vs $18K and paying $2K in taxes ain't going to make a damn bit of difference. Every single person needs skin in the game, period. If I pay more taxes than someone else, I should expect more in return and you shouldn't get pissed about that.

Agree with the above, except for the corporate tax. The "free" market is supposed to disallow price hikes like that due to competition. But we don't have a free market in most industries anymore. If those corporations paid into the tax system the way they pay into the the lobbying arm of Washington this would be a moot issue. Greed is destroying this country.

I am not sure you understand how business works. There is no way you can "disallow" taxes from influencing the cost of doing business and thus passing expenses on to the consumer.

I do agree that "rent seeking" is a massive problem. But if you really want to curb that practice, then make sure legislators and recent former Secretary of States can't peddle their influence for money. Donald Trump is the perfect example of effective rent seeking. And you can't blame anyone who uses it to gain advantage. Its there, not using it is actively saying you won't take advantage of an opportunity.

[Schnitzer318is]

That being said, you can't blame people for hiring other people to find a way to pay as little taxes as possible. Taxes are an expense. Not paying expenses is the same as earning profit, period.

Sure you can. Just because something is legal doesn't make it moral or just. We've had periods in this country where the wealthy were charged insane percentages in tax... but they stayed wealthy, we had the largest middle class in the world, and income disparity was much lower.

The best thing we can do as a nation is have a flat tax where everyone pays the same percentage in and have no deductions for anything. That way you can plan and program your finances to work around this fixed cost called a flat tax.

Disagree. We'd need a tiered flat tax system. 10% of a $20,000 income hurts a lot more than 10% of $2,000,000 income in terms of the affect on quality of life.

Instead, we have everyone doing what they can to pay as little tax as possible (why else does TurboTax offer to look for more deductions for you for a fee?) and it drives up our costs because business just adds the tax expense to their calculations on what they want to charge for a product. Every corporate tax increase is a tax on the consumer.

Agree with the above, except for the corporate tax. The "free" market is supposed to disallow price hikes like that due to competition. But we don't have a free market in most industries anymore. If those corporations paid into the tax system the way they pay into the the lobbying arm of Washington this would be a moot issue. Greed is destroying this country.

[marshallnoise]

I did a quick math check, and if he were, as he claimed, to have made 9xx,000,000 last year it wouldn't be a huge impact on the budget at normal tax rates. But let's imagine that someone making one billion each year had an effective tax rate of 75%, and then you realize that our entire national debt would be gone with a mere 31,000 taxpayers of that type if everyone else paid nothing (not that everyone should pay nothing). It's also safe to assume that a couple with no dependants can comfortably live on 150,000,000 annual income.

Now, take that presumptive tax payment, compare it to what you paid last year all in, and see just how many taxpayers it would take to just wash the total debt. It's simply insane, the people with average incomes just can't make a dent in it, even if they were also taxed at 75%.

That's all well and good, but taxing anyone at 75% or even 50% would drive people to do everything they could to hide revenue from taxation.

That being said, you can't blame people for hiring other people to find a way to pay as little taxes as possible. Taxes are an expense. Not paying expenses is the same as earning profit, period.

The best thing we can do as a nation is have a flat tax where everyone pays the same percentage in and have no deductions for anything. That way you can plan and program your finances to work around this fixed cost called a flat tax.

Instead, we have everyone doing what they can to pay as little tax as possible (why else does TurboTax offer to look for more deductions for you for a fee?) and it drives up our costs because business just adds the tax expense to their calculations on what they want to charge for a product. Every corporate tax increase is a tax on the consumer.

[Schnitzer318is]

I know I'm going to catch shit for this, but I rarely saw any relevant answers to the questions asked. I felt like it was a personal attack against one another and Lester had to act like a substitute teacher trying to break 2 kids up.

This. They were both children, but Hillary was a 10 year old and Trump a 5 year old.

As to the clothing the two wore... I gave it ZERO thought. Hadn't even thought about it until mentioned here. I guess this shows the issues the voters in the country worry about. As long as they weren't naked, in jeans and a T, or in formal dress, their clothes would have never entered my mind.

These candidates suck.

[roguetoaster]

Trump can't pay enough in taxes to make any difference. Also, he didn't make the tax laws we play by, and there is no duty for anyone to maximize their tax liability. If he legally pays no taxes more power to him, and it also points out how incredibly illogical/incoherent our tax system is.

I did a quick math check, and if he were, as he claimed, to have made 9xx,000,000 last year it wouldn't be a huge impact on the budget at normal tax rates. But let's imagine that someone making one billion each year had an effective tax rate of 75%, and then you realize that our entire national debt would be gone with a mere 31,000 taxpayers of that type if everyone else paid nothing (not that everyone should pay nothing). It's also safe to assume that a couple with no dependants can comfortably live on 150,000,000 annual income.

Now, take that presumptive tax payment, compare it to what you paid last year all in, and see just how many taxpayers it would take to just wash the total debt. It's simply insane, the people with average incomes just can't make a dent in it, even if they were also taxed at 75%.

[BraveUlysses]

The restraint he's showing is not releasing his tax returns.

Even though I doubt he can do much more damage now after he pretty much bragged he doesn't pay any federal taxes. How does that feel guys? All of us are picking up the hundreds of millions he evades.

He's not releasing them because he's not as wealthy as he likes to portray himself.

[gwb72tii]

Trump can't pay enough in taxes to make any difference. Also, he didn't make the tax laws we play by, and there is no duty for anyone to maximize their tax liability. If he legally pays no taxes more power to him, and it also points out how incredibly illogical/incoherent our tax system is.

[Kershaw]

The restraint he's showing is not releasing his tax returns.

Even though I doubt he can do much more damage now after he pretty much bragged he doesn't pay any federal taxes. How does that feel guys? All of us are picking up the hundreds of millions he evades.

[BraveUlysses]

well stop and frisk was never litigated fully. it was still in court when the current left wing mayor decided to drop the case

yet trump was still incorrect about the murder rate in NYC, it has continued to drop after S&F was ended.

[BraveUlysses]

He show restraint and only went where and as far as he needed to, with out going too overboard.

such restraint

At one point during the debate, Trump told moderator Lester Holt that he’d planned to say “something extremely rough” to Hillary Clinton and her family, but he decided not to do it. “It’s inappropriate, it’s not nice,” Trump said.

Bragging out loud that you're above saying something really inappropriate, definitely showing restraint.

[BraveUlysses]

anyone who was "undecided" and was swayed by any bit of that debate shouldn't be voting