The Panama Papers

[marshallnoise]

I didn't say poverty. I said poor. And it's not that weird of a way to determine your wealth. It's pretty standard. If you have two classes, the wealthy and the poor, you are part of the poor. But hey, maybe I am assuming too much. Maybe you have $10m in assets and I'm wrong. Or maybe you're not rocking a brand new M5 on 20" Avantis because you're not part of the wealthy. I'm not trying to be mean, but please, be realistic about your situation. I'm right next to you, honestly.

It is not a standard that rational individuals use to determine being poor or not. And poverty and poor mean the exact same thing. There is no difference, practically.

Either way, "poor" folk such as your self still have no right to make claim on money or investments of other people. That's it. That's the filter of liberty, right there.

Sleeve, that's great for you and tbh I think I could manage at least 3 years not working too, but that would deplete everything I've worked for up to this point and my future would then be that much harder. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking straight up, living comfortably off your investments for the rest of your life. If you can do that, you can consider yourself wealthy.

Kershaw, in 10 more years working, you can take that cash and invest it and not work the rest of your life, if you are smart. Not having to work because you are using an asset to earn more revenue is not something to be punished. Yet, you advocate that.

More importantly, you must dislike the retired too because that's all they have to live on: Proceeds of their investments.

[Kershaw]

Maybe because it's not like that.

How about this picture.

Person A owns a factory that Person B works at. A pays B just barely enough to live. A owns several houses, a dozen cars, and a few boats. Person A could stop working at any time and spend the rest of his life just driving his cars. Person A was given this factory by his father, who started it in the 50s. Back in the 50s, A's father made 35x what his lowest factory floor worker made. Today, A makes about 400x what B does. The road that connects the highway to the factory needs to be repaved and taxes need to be raised to pay for this. Everyone in the town wants the top 10% income tax (essentially Person A and his VPs) raised to pay for this. Person A goes to the mayor and says, "if you raise the top income tax I will shut down my factory and move it somewhere else, you need to find the money elsewhere." So the mayor takes the money from the school budget.

edit: And I'm not planning on retiring in 10 years at 39. That would be crazy. And throwing that in about hating retired folks because their bodies are beat and cant work anymore is silly. I'm not talking about retired people, come on, let's not try to nitpick and obfuscate every single point. Are we having a discussion or are we just trying to throw shit around?

[Wschnitz]

This isnt about "the poors" wanting to take rich peoples money, this is about rich people dodging tax laws...

Remember what jebus said kids, give to Caesar what is Caesars etc etc. Rich man into heaven etc.

[Kershaw]

Apparently this discussion hasn't reached that level because we are still trying to discuss why it's ok to tax the wealthy.

[Wschnitz]

According to Marshalls train of thought Taxation is just a scheme to take from the rich and give to the poor, not a tool to run a nation or anything.

[supermansocks95]

I still don't understand how its ok to basically say: "That person over there has more than me, I want it."

That is effectively what all the lefties are saying in here.

I don't think any of us are saying that. This thread is about those who have evaded US tax laws. They've broken the law so that they don't have to give as much back. Like some have been saying, if you're going to be a citizen anywhere, you should abide by that country's laws. If you don't like it, move somewhere else.

[BraveUlysses]

I don't think any of us are saying that. This thread is about those who have evaded US tax laws. They've broken the law so that they don't have to give as much back. Like some have been saying, if you're going to be a citizen anywhere, you should abide by that country's laws. If you don't like it, move somewhere else.

I think we're going to see that it's far worse than that--it's going to reveal bribes, unethical use of hidden money to fund terrorism, investments of known fraudsters, drug money investments.

These side discussions about the poor not paying enough are made by people who excel at making dishonest arguments that have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

[Kershaw]

I only wish the law firms that Americans use were exposed as well. Here's to hoping for the future.

[gwb72tii]

Yes, they made so much that a 3% increase to the top income bracket hardly made a dent in their income. A good post, gwb.

you make my point even tho you may not have intended to.
the policies of obama and his pick for fed chair have benefited the rich, left the middle class behind, and increased the wealth/income gap.
the taxes paid by the top 1% has risen from 40% to 45%, yet the issues raised by kershaw have gotten progressively worse. yet kershaw would do more of the same policies, and expect a different outcome somehow.
the problem is not the 1% or tax rates. It's the lack of growth in the economy and resulting lack of upward mobility kerhsaw finds himself pigeonholed in.
if the economy were growing faster, if the rich saw an opportunity to invest instead of hide their wealth, everyone would be better off.

[marshallnoise]

Nailed it!

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[Rsully70sev]

“I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.” - Winston S. Churchill

Young People for Bernie Sanders - Where's My Stuff?

[mjimport]

This isnt about "the poors" wanting to take rich peoples money, this is about rich people dodging tax laws...

Remember what jebus said kids, give to Caesar what is Caesars etc etc. Rich man into heaven etc.

You got it, sort of... I need help understanding your "rich people in heaven" reference...

[marshallnoise]

You got it, sort of... I need help understanding your "rich people in heaven" reference...

Biblical reference to try and exclude the rich from getting into heaven. Usually libs use that with no point of context.

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[mjimport]

Ok but that is way off context, not sure how Libs make that connection, but I don't spend much time in the r3v PR forum either.

My intent was simply to show that paying taxes is biblically supported, even when the use of those taxes is immoral. Let God be their judge.
So I am supporting the notion that illegally deferring taxes (or misrepresenting income) is not ok, even when those taxes are "misused".
Definitely a tough pill to swallow as I really hate seeing my taxes go to funding organizations I could never associate with.

Heck, I would give 50% of my paycheck to taxes if I really knew where it was going. AND I am in the "poor" category, LoL

[MF DOOM]

Oh yeah. I'd be surprised if they weren't. The only politician that'll disappoint me if they're on the list is Bernie. The rest I already knew were scumbags.

Come on... don't let the last true hope for America be just as corrupt as the rest.

Last true hope? You bernie cult weirdos are nuts.