Standing Rock vs Dakota pipeline

[decay]

That being said, we have dishonored our treaties anyway, so why not formally do it?

because the right thing to do according to the ethics and legislature of our country is to *honor our fucking agreements*.

[marshallnoise]

because the right thing to do according to the ethics and legislature of our country is to *honor our fucking agreements*.

It's a right thing to set up these individuals to fail, ensure they stay in poverty, and not be full participants in the nation in which they live. Got it.

Honor bad deals for the people we drove across the nation because it's "honoring our fucking agreements."

[decay]

as someone else already said- maybe you should go ask them what THEY want.

i got the impression they wouldn't be too keen on your idea.

[marshallnoise]

as someone else already said- maybe you should go ask them what THEY want.

i got the impression they wouldn't be too keen on your idea.

Oh because their lives are so full of advantage now? I would be tempted to not ask them and just pass legislation.

[decay]

that's called authoritarianism. short trip from that to fascism.

[marshallnoise]

that's called authoritarianism. short trip from that to fascism.

au·thor·i·tar·i·an·ism
ôˌTHäriˈterēənizəm/
noun
noun: authoritarianism

1. the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
   
   
   • lack of concern for the wishes or opinions of others.
     
     
   
   
   
   
   

fas·cism
ˈfaSHˌizəm/
noun
noun: fascism; noun: Fascism; plural noun: Fascisms

1. an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
   
   
   
   
   • (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.
     
     
   
   
   
   
   

Nope, neither one of those applies. What it would be is a law that gets passed or an amendment that gets passed that does what I described above. Native American's don't have sovereignty regardless what you say or what they say.



Its cool, I don't really give a shit. Just get that fuel flowing.

[mrsleeve]

liberals love to toss that fascism word around with no real understanding of its actual meaning

[marshallnoise]

liberals love to toss that fascism word around with no real understanding of its actual meaning

Yeah, they have zero clue. Delivering people from their chains that we imposed is the exact opposite of authoritarian.

[decay]

the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

that is *exactly* what you are suggesting by saying they should be under the purview of the federal government, by taking the land we agreed was theirs and giving it to a three-letter agency, so yes, i do understand what i'm saying, and my definition is correct.

i notice you never answered mbonder's question...

[decay]

(also the two of you should probably learn the difference between "liberal" and "anarchist", they are not the same thing, and i'd like it if you stopped calling me the former)

[mrsleeve]

so your saying your for the total lack of government and law then???

[decay]

so your saying your for the total lack of government and law then???

i'm saying i have a stronger position on how much of either those should exist than libertarians do, and that is why i disagree with marshallnoise's idea.

[marshallnoise]

Ok, anarchist, you realize that Native Americans already are under the thumb of the Federal Government, right? Or do you believe they are truly free?

I don't think you understand their lack of citizenship and all the rights associated with it. They are treated as less than second class citizens. Just like the plantations hi-rises called the projects that they holed up countless African Americans. Those are their reservations.

Anarchism is antisocial; nothing more, nothing less.

[mrsleeve]

i'm saying i have a stronger position on how much of either those should exist than libertarians do, and that is why i disagree with marshallnoise's idea.

Cutting. A hole in a large bore high pressure oil transmission pipe line is not an act of civil disobedience, unless of course you think Tim McVeigh was a national hero. They are one in the same, your moment totally igored the danger that posed to everything in the area, what if the operations, had left N2 in the line under high pressure, to keep the line dry in the interim waiting for the final tie ins and loading with product (which many componies do in long waiting situations)??? That would have killed everyone invlvoed, and released highly concentrated nitrogen gas into the neighboring area and that could have killed off live stock, residents, passing motorists as their car staled out in middle of a cloud before the concentration had time to disapatell to nontoxic levels. It also would have destroyed several million dollars in equipment and cost a boat load to fix.

Not to mention this act of dangerous destruction of property, did not delay operations getting product loaded into the line.

[decay]

Ok, anarchist, you realize that Native Americans already are under the thumb of the Federal Government, right? Or do you believe they are truly free?

they have a greater degree of autonomy from fedgov than you or i do.

i'm not a person who tends to think in absolutes...

I don't think you understand their lack of citizenship and all the rights associated with it.

...

i sat down and listened to what they want when i was on-site.

i think i have a better understanding of their concerns and desires than you do, based on that first-hand experience.

they would fucking hate your idea, and it smells strongly of "we're from the government, and we're here to help".

sleeve- McVeigh was *not* an anarchist; he was a white supremacist. you do understand that the two are pretty much opposites, and if you're going to call fault on liberal vs conservative, he was on the far end of *your* side, right?

nobody was harmed in this resistance action. sorry, calling bullshit on your whole argument if that's where you're starting.