Standing Rock vs Dakota pipeline

[BraveUlysses]

Orlando


Brave, no ar15s would have had the atf show up and run them off the federal land al-la Nevada and Oregon. .... oh wait these are not white people, disregard.

you're so close to getting it some times but then you always miss right at the end.

the bundy's were not run off in nevada, the government backed down.
the ending of the oregon takeover was 40 plus days after it started, hardly qualifies as being run off either.

[mrsleeve]

Yeah it's bad I4 only late nights, prolly be down here till feb/march, maybe longer if other crews want to go home 1st.

Yeah I agree about his dgaf. About opinions on it, the issue is how the rest of the country will see the optics of it all. We have a very small neich industry in regards to employees, with a massive spot light shown on us, being Monday morning quarterbacked by people that have not the faintest clue about what they are talking about, in general let alone the business it self.

[naplesE30]

1. I dint think Trump will give 2 shits what the optics will be if he does change or influence the decision. The corps left it open by saying more studying of the impacts are needed. Not a closed case.

2. I also think Trump is more liberal and enviro leaning than he lets on. His administration will be one of juxtaposition I feel.

Yeah Orlando traffic is horrible. Blue hairs, mixed with tourists, mixed with some who very likely do not have a valid license makes for terrible commutes. I avoid the I4 corridor at all costs when going through the area. How long are you down for?

[mrsleeve]

Orlando


Brave, no ar15s would have had the atf show up and run them off the federal land al-la Nevada and Oregon. .... oh wait these are not white people, disregard.

Very, calculated politically motivated call. We know that after the regime change this decision is likely to be turned on its heels. But that is going to be very hard to do for the incoming admin, with looking like he's trying fuck those poor indians, and serve business interests. While the big O get to leave his mark as green, protector of the minorities, even though it's been done with compleat disrespect of the rules and regs that govern how this process happens. That is not how the media and the public will remember it.

[ForcedFirebird]

... heading down here to my job in FL because its too cold now...

I also want to know where in FL. If in the SoFlo area, come see us :)

[BraveUlysses]

Proof that protesting can get things done.

if the protestors had shown up with ar15's this would have been done weeks ago

[Wschnitz]

Proof that protesting can get things done.

[Massive Lee]

Great things happened today. ;-)

[BraveUlysses]

Trust me E/T had route approval from all regulator agencies before they started construction. Orginal application date was 12/14, and included all the nessary impact studies and public notices. Route approval is not the same as permitting for individual issues such as wet lands, rivers, lakes, rail roads, roads, etc... The permitting is generally handled by more local entities of those regulatory bodies. No company is going to build 97% of a 3.8B dollar project only to have 3000' of it not approved (Key Stone XL anyone). Permits are only good for x amount of time, and normally not pulled for something like this until they have too. The construction contractor planed to kick off with that drill, but pushed it back because of the idiots, Not because of permitting issues. They had the tenitive permitting and approval of the Corp of engineeres from the get go our they would not have laid the lined to that point along the river.

Whom ever your getting your info from is full of shit. Or cherry picking a technicality passing as something much bigger than it is.

Well it sounds like it's going to get a full EIS, it previously only had an EA performed, which is not as extensive and does not have "approval from all regulator agencies" like an EIS does.

Why didn't a pipleine project that goes under a water source require an EIS right off the bat?

the EA is located here:

http://cdm16021.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p16021coll7/id/2801

[mrsleeve]

Trust me E/T had route approval from all regulator agencies before they started construction. Orginal application date was 12/14, and included all the nessary impact studies and public notices. Route approval is not the same as permitting for individual issues such as wet lands, rivers, lakes, rail roads, roads, etc... The permitting is generally handled by more local entities of those regulatory bodies. No company is going to build 97% of a 3.8B dollar project only to have 3000' of it not approved (Key Stone XL anyone). Permits are only good for x amount of time, and normally not pulled for something like this until they have too. The construction contractor planed to kick off with that drill, but pushed it back because of the idiots, Not because of permitting issues. They had the tenitive permitting and approval of the Corp of engineeres from the get go our they would not have laid the lined to that point along the river.

Whom ever your getting your info from is full of shit. Or cherry picking a technicality passing as something much bigger than it is.

[decay]

^
You do know thats only going to last until Jan 20th right????? There is 3.79B spent and installed of a 3.8B dollar job. Is going to be built, it may be held up in the courts for a little bit but it going be completed dont fool your selves this all that has occurred is a delay in the inevitable . Or you me and the rest of the tax payers will get to repay E/T for the funds spent to build this thing, since the feds and the Corp Of Engineers are going to get the shit sued out of them and they are going to LOSE badly.

well then i'll gear up and head out in january if i have to. VFSR isn't going anywhere.

[Kershaw]

Here's the Army Corps of Engineer's statement saying they will not grant the easement: https://www.army.mil/article/179095/...eline_crossing
They call for a full Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) with full public input and analysis. It's important to know that an EIS did not happen in the first place for this pipeline. This is for several reasons, chief among them that the Army Corps is using a process called a "nationwide permit" that provides a loophole for large projects like this to avoid a full EIS. The pipeline did do an "environmental assessment" which is a summary review of impact on environmental, cultural, archaeological, and other resources. Funnily enough, the company found DAPL would not significantly impact any of these things along its 1,100 mile route, and the Army Corps said OK.
Now, doing a full blown EIS means that there needs to be a substantive review of the actual impacts of the pipeline, its construction, and its maintenance on all sorts of resources (both ecological and cultural) from the discrete effects on certain portions to the overall effects of the whole project. An EIS requires full consideration and analysis of several alternatives (including not doing the project). The public has a chance to comment, as do other governmental agencies that Energy Access and the Army Corps ignored previously (like the Departments of Interior, Justice, and the National Historic Preservation Agency). Importantly, there is a requirement that the government engage in consultation with tribal governments that will be affected. It's rare for a full EIS to take less than a year.
On the ground, what this means is still unclear, but the pipeline company agreed to start shipping oil by January 1, 2017. If they miss that, not only do they have to pay penalties, but oil shippers and producers can cancel their contracts. Dakota Access will be subject to suit for contract breach and damages, and the longer it draws out, the less economic sense it makes to use the pipeline at all.
Lots of unknowns, but that is what this decision means at the moment for the company. The folks in the protest camps may decide to stay and protect, or may go home. I'm sure tonight they are going to have a traditional dance.

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/5ghzwg/us_army_corps_of_engineers_to_look_for_alternate/dasf06j/

The Army Corps never ok'd the build across Lake Oahe, though it did for other crossings. The company started building before full approval (though many companies do).

So it appears that the company is a big bag of dicks, like most of us already assumed.

edit: It also means that the next administration can jerk this in any direction they choose.

[mrsleeve]

^
You do know thats only going to last until Jan 20th right????? There is 3.79B spent and installed of a 3.8B dollar job. Is going to be built, it may be held up in the courts for a little bit but it going be completed dont fool your selves this all that has occurred is a delay in the inevitable . Or you me and the rest of the tax payers will get to repay E/T for the funds spent to build this thing, since the feds and the Corp Of Engineers are going to get the shit sued out of them and they are going to LOSE badly.

The weather is supposed to be extreme cold in the next week. Pack warmly. I dont have a dog in this fight, but as an outsider it seems very late in the game to be protesting.

Where are you working in FL sleeve?

Spread 6 of the Sabal Trail project, so Orland/Kissimmee more or less. I cant wait till this thing is over I am going to go nucking futs with the shear amount of fools around here that and its just plain to hot here for me. That traffic around Kissimmee is beyond nuts no matter what time of day it is.

We had a contractor put in an effluent water line to our golf course last year using hdpe pipe. It was a pretty educational experience for us. Def small potatoes compared to NG or oil but nonetheless, pretty neat to see them bore under creeks and such. I know those guys took it very seriously. A lot of $$$ can be pissed away with a simple mistake, so I can imagine the protocols in place for something with environmental consequences.

There is little difference in general from your HDPE water line install to the HDD under the lake/River on the DAPL, other than of course the greater scale of it all, and the issues that come with that. That said on Saturday we finished pulling in a 3400ish foot HDD, the 1st of 4 or 5 on our spread. Its a very very common practice and used all the time. Yes the amount of money it costs for a big bore long ass HDD is staggering they can cost 10's of millions when all said and done in some cases and thats if everything goes off with out a hitch, we had one in NY state a few years ago where it took nearly a year (357 days IIRC) from the rig set up to when it was finally pulled in and tied in as the last 2 welds on the spread.

Sleeve: What sort of measeres are taken to allow for shifting earth? Small earthquake etc. espc in underground sections. Engineering solutions fascinate me as I have very little engineering ability.

While we tend to think of a chunk of steel piping as rigid and stiff and very hard to flex, when you have several hundred feet of it you can get a great deal more flex and deflection than you would think out of it with in reason of course. (stick a bunch of PVC or electrical conduit together and you will get what I am talking about). The period of the energy waves of an earth quake are quiet long, and everything around the pipe is going to be moving at the same rate. With the very long period of the energy waves and the inherent elasticity of steel unless its a very massive earth quake or there is some type of shearing forces, like a hill side slip/landslide, large heaves, or massive settlement (like a mine chamber collapse or the biggest sink hole ever) most all welded steel pipelines are going to survive all but the most massive of quakes. In fact Columbia Gas (recently bought by Enbridge) has several lines in the WV/VA area scheduled next year to be brought above ground and put on limited service due to coal mining activity underneath them and the planned ground settlement when those mine chambers are collapsed. CA has has some very big quakes and very little pipeline damage occurs from them. The ones you would see the most damage on are the small distribution lines and services, because they are pulled out of or broken off at the structures they are tied on to.

[decay]

First formation was at 1200h.

We got notification of cessation of construction from the Army Corps of Engineers about 4 hours later.

Hooah, motherfuckers.

[decay]

what kept me out of the situation is some fucking thief in san francisco.

don't think i'm entirely liberal; right now i would kill the person who took my backpack, given the chance.

i'm out over $2k of my own and i feel pretty obligated to pay back all the paypal donations, which are another $1.5k or so.

welcome to tactical operations. shit sucks sometimes.