Immigration

[MrBurgundy]

:yawn:

[roguetoaster]

so this is not a troll fyi

for the progressives or whatever you call your selves

explain the reasoning behind sanctuary cities, about being in favor of illegal immigration, the reasoning of not cooperating with ICE and law enforcement in general

I don't get it except for the obvious eventual politics of handing out favors to another class of people in return for future democratic votes.

but i'm pretty much black and white with regards to the law, you obey the law or change it.

Well, I think it all pretty much boils down to this widely held feeling in certain circles:

https://youtu.be/NDb6OT8Dp3A?t=30

Also, I wish you had the same respect for writing that you claim to have for the law, mister-never-speeds-never-jaywalks-ever.

[marshallnoise]

Well, I think it all pretty much boils down to this widely held feeling in certain circles:

https://youtu.be/NDb6OT8Dp3A?t=30

Also, I wish you had the same respect for writing that you claim to have for the law, mister-never-speeds-never-jaywalks-ever.

:hitler:

I agree about the writing.

[gwb72tii]

Well, I think it all pretty much boils down to this widely held feeling in certain circles:

https://youtu.be/NDb6OT8Dp3A?t=30

Also, I wish you had the same respect for writing that you claim to have for the law, mister-never-speeds-never-jaywalks-ever.

Well it's a stretch to equate jay walking and speeding with entering a country illegally, but point taken. And I actually don't speed much anymore. If you go 65 on I5, the whole road opens up.

As far as my writing goes, I'll try to capitalize and such for you rogue, oops I mean Rogue. Thought the interwebs didn't actually care?

[mbonder]

I think the issue here is that people can see humanity in others. Immigrants to America (legal or illegal) have come here for a chance to have a better life, people can sympathize with that (at least most people have come for that reason and most people can understand that reasoning).

I also think that most people don't view this topic as a zero-sum game, because many of those illegal immigrants actually do contribute value to the American society (mostly through their labor, but they do spend money and enrich the economy as well, although that's not as easily seen or felt by the average person).

The process of gaining citizenship and permanent residence in America isn't an easy one. I've witnessed this first hand with two sets of friends that have married immigrants and the process they had to go through to keep them in this country and to eventually allow them the full rights of American citizens is neither quick, nor cheap, so I can sympathize with illegal immigration to the extent that it cuts through a tremendous amount of bureaucracy and aggravation.

Do I think it's the wholly correct way to go about it, no not really, but I'm not really against kicking people out that are already here. If you contribute to American society than you should be able to stay, even if your contribution is simply buying a coffee in the morning from your local shop, because by doing so you're supporting the hopes and dreams of our millennial population that isn't really interested in doing much more than brewing your morning caffeine.

[E30-Ellerman]

I'm just here for the popcorn and to voice my shock that Trump was voted in as president. HOW............ HOW............. does a country vote for him? Oh 'Merica, I pity you for the next 3+ years and hope your lives don't get too messed up. Good luck - you will need it.

Welcome to Canada, our leader's (who is referred to as the Prime Minister) agenda has been to spend lots of money on everything under the sun and legalize weed to pay for the aforementioned point which has incurred debt. Surrrrre maybe not ideal but 10 fold better than the debauchery of Trump.

Rant over, it's 530am and I need to sleep.

[Powling]

I'm just here for the popcorn and to voice my shock that Trump was voted in as president. HOW............ HOW............. does a country vote for him? Oh 'Merica, I pity you for the next 3+ years and hope your lives don't get too messed up. Good luck - you will need it.

Welcome to Canada, our leader's (who is referred to as the Prime Minister) agenda has been to spend lots of money on everything under the sun and legalize weed to pay for the aforementioned point which has incurred debt. Surrrrre maybe not ideal but 10 fold better than the debauchery of Trump.

Rant over, it's 530am and I need to sleep.

At least our leader doesn't spend a majority of his time fighting with D list celeb's on Twitter.

[E30-Ellerman]

At least our leader doesn't spend a majority of his time fighting with D list celeb's on Twitter.

Hahaha. Right, that too. Ugh. 'Merica

[z31maniac]

I think the issue here is that people can see humanity in others. Immigrants to America (legal or illegal) have come here for a chance to have a better life, people can sympathize with that (at least most people have come for that reason and most people can understand that reasoning).

I also think that most people don't view this topic as a zero-sum game, because many of those illegal immigrants actually do contribute value to the American society (mostly through their labor, but they do spend money and enrich the economy as well, although that's not as easily seen or felt by the average person).

The process of gaining citizenship and permanent residence in America isn't an easy one. I've witnessed this first hand with two sets of friends that have married immigrants and the process they had to go through to keep them in this country and to eventually allow them the full rights of American citizens is neither quick, nor cheap, so I can sympathize with illegal immigration to the extent that it cuts through a tremendous amount of bureaucracy and aggravation.

Do I think it's the wholly correct way to go about it, no not really, but I'm not really against kicking people out that are already here. If you contribute to American society than you should be able to stay, even if your contribution is simply buying a coffee in the morning from your local shop, because by doing so you're supporting the hopes and dreams of our millennial population that isn't really interested in doing much more than brewing your morning caffeine.

I typically have agreed with you with what you post lately, but I'm tired of reading "Oh it's so hard to become an American citizen (which implies illegal immigration is OK)"

You realize it's more difficult to become a citizen of Mexico than America, correct?

Look what it takes to become a citizen of Switzerland for instance. This troupe is played out and false.

[BraveUlysses]

why do we care about either of those examples? nobody has ever held those countries up as an example of a good place to immigrate to. The US has a long history of immigration as well as an unfortunate streak of history in which people try to kick the ladder down for people from certain countries.

[mrsleeve]

Switzerland would be a great place to go if have a means of supporting your self in its very high cost of living. Lots of very wealthy, and famous people buy homes and live all around the little villages near Lake Geneva. Very popular place to move to if you have the ability too

[gwb72tii]

Switzerland would be a great place to go if have a means of supporting your self in its very high cost of living. Lots of very wealthy, and famous people buy homes and live all around the little villages near Lake Geneva. Very popular place to move to if you have the ability too

Norway as well. the US will more than likely will never achieve the type of socialism that works in countries like Sweden, Denmark and Norway because we have so much immigration, that we are not a homogeneous society.

Of course it helps to have a resource like North Sea oil in the case of Norway.

[MrBurgundy]

[mbonder]

I typically have agreed with you with what you post lately, but I'm tired of reading "Oh it's so hard to become an American citizen (which implies illegal immigration is OK)"

You realize it's more difficult to become a citizen of Mexico than America, correct?

Look what it takes to become a citizen of Switzerland for instance. This troupe is played out and false.

My experience in watching my friends go through it is that it is difficult. My friend married a girl who was over here for school from South Africa and that was over 4 years ago now. They have spent nearly $10k in legal fees so that she can eventually become an American citizen. They submit bank records, loan statements, tax docs, etc to prove that they were married for love and not so she can gain citizenship. How exactly is any of this easy?

I can't talk to how it is for all people attempting to gain citizenship, but that's the example that I've got to work with.

I also said that I didn't agree with people immigrating here illegally in my previous post. Citizenship and immigration for residency but not citizenship are two different things. I would say that immigrating for residency and not citizenship is not that difficult (which I think agrees with what you are saying), I've worked with plenty of people that have done just that. Gaining citizenship status, however, isn't as easy as per my example above.

So why do people come to the US illegally? I imagine because it's cheaper, they don't pay taxes, they don't pay other benefits that citizens have to pay. Which means more money can be sent home to their families. This forces citizens to carry more of the burden of these entitlements for the society, which I think is where people begin to have an issue with illegal immigration. As a tax-paying American citizen I can sympathize with this point of view as taxes and whatnot are something that citizens only grudgingly pay because they see the necessity in it. Free-riding on that system I think is the central issue here, rather than the idea that these people coming here are in some ways largely criminals in the sense of rape and murder, rather than being criminals for not going through the proper immigration channels.

[marshallnoise]

I also think that its true that people come here for a better life. But I also think that coming here for a better life HAS to include hard work and not leeching off the government which in turn (financially) is the American tax payer. I think that there are a lot of people who come here for a better life at the expense of everyone else and that is wrong.