The US doomed to be dumb

[Mediumrarechicken]

Colleges don't have a negative effect on our country, kids with BS liberal arts degrees and a picket signs do.

This. Great doctors and other meaningful professions are coming out of college

[Schnitzer318is]

College sports and the rising cost of secondary education is the problem. There are schools with liberal professors and equally as many with conservative ones. People can attend whichever they prefer... IF, and this is a big IF... they can afford it.

If schools stopped all their sports dick waving and paying coaches tens of millions a year... it might be a start. Or at least pay the athletes a livable wage when they are performing a rather demanding JOB that they work 60+ hours a week trying to perfect.

Someone else can look up the hockey stick graph showing college tuition rates rising.

[mrsleeve]

^

Could it be the fact all these kids that don know any better, are able to take out tens of thousands in loans be a factor in the rising cost of tuition

[estoguy]

Colleges don't have a negative effect on our country, kids with BS liberal arts degrees and picket signs do.

Mostly true, but there are profs out there who are enabling these kids as well.

Good video that addresses things that dumb ass students are doing (among other things)

[Schnitzer318is]

^

Could it be the fact all these kids that don know any better, are able to take out tens of thousands in loans be a factor in the rising cost of tuition

Yes, though I'm surprised to see you think some sort of regulation is in order to prevent that.

Though students or parents being able to get loans is not the primary driver rising tuition costs IMO. Educating the student has taken a back seat to pampering the students, staff, and just flat out bragging. Much the same way corporations do when they build ridiculously opulent headquarters.

[Hooffenstein HD]

Colleges don't have a negative effect on our country, kids with BS liberal arts degrees and picket signs do.

It's true, but there are plenty of milquetoast white guilt liberal professors brainwashing the kids with their propaganda.

Evergreen and Berkeley come to mind as a prime example of why people think colleges/universities are failing.

[BraveUlysses]

Yes, though I'm surprised to see you think some sort of regulation is in order to prevent that.

Though students or parents being able to get loans is not the primary driver rising tuition costs IMO. Educating the student has taken a back seat to pampering the students, staff, and just flat out bragging. Much the same way corporations do when they build ridiculously opulent headquarters.

most of the increases in the past 10 years were due to states pulling public funding for public universities, driving tuition up. Allowing students to go into 100k of non-dischargable debt is obviously not good but doesn't drive tuition increases.

[mrsleeve]

Yes, though I'm surprised to see you think some sort of regulation is in order to prevent that.

Though students or parents being able to get loans is not the primary driver rising tuition costs IMO. Educating the student has taken a back seat to pampering the students, staff, and just flat out bragging. Much the same way corporations do when they build ridiculously opulent headquarters.

I am not purposing any thing of the sort, I am mearly pointing out one of the more "nefarious" sides of the argument. I think putting ALL kids though "home-economics" in Jr high might help some of this. You know where you learn how to balance a check book, figure out a budget, how compound interest works and other basic life skills and knowledge.

I agree with your assessment, that its not the only thing or the biggest thing driving costs up, but I do feel its much more of a factor than most think it is. That and how degree programs are getting longer and longer and taking 5+ years to get through undergrad now that 20 years ago was a 4 year degree program or less with summer courses.

[BraveUlysses]

I am not purposing any thing of the sort, I am mearly pointing out one of the more "nefarious" sides of the argument. I think putting ALL kids though "home-economics" in Jr high might help some of this. You know where you learn how to balance a check book, figure out a budget, how compound interest works and other basic life skills and knowledge.

I agree with your assessment, that its not the only thing or the biggest thing driving costs up, but I do feel its much more of a factor than most think it is. That and how degree programs are getting longer and longer and taking 5+ years to get through undergrad now that 20 years ago was a 4 year degree program or less with summer courses.

well skip the checkbook bullshit cause who actually writes checks and is under the age of 40?

i ran out of checks in like 2006 or 2007 and never bothered getting more

most universities still expect 180 credits but if you take a degree in say plastics engineering which may have a credit load for the major of 130 credits, and the school still expects you to have humanities credits, arts credits, ect and the need for some classes to be taken in sequence, not concurrently, it's pretty easy to push out past 4 years.

you could get an economics degree with only 60-something credits at my school, what a gimmick!

[Wschnitz]

The checkbook bs does need to die, my parents were all about teaching me that, then bank statements became instant the last couple years and it no longer matters.

Budgeting for sure though, lots of people dont understand how to budget. Part of that is having so little money it feels like you can do shit but, whatever.h

[mrsleeve]

^

Balance the check book is no different than balancing your debit card transactions Vs Credits. Its the very same thing debits need to total less than debits no matter where the debits come from, its part of your budgeting process. Yes I know the bank will do that for you now, but its a valuable skill to know and understand before you enter "real life".

Hell I just wrote out a 2k CHECK yesterday, to pay our hay guy, because I wanted a record of the transaction as positively paid (vs hand the guy cash) and our hay supplier does not swipe cards. You run into this kinda situation much more in rural places, but I digress.

Why do you need all the arts/humanities/women's studies/african basket weaving/ etc... when you want to and really only need learn about fluid dynamics, thermodynamics, maths, geology, physics, physiology, biology, law. etc for your chosen field of study..... Because it helps run up the bill, and helps to reinforce ideas on ALL the students in the system....... What a great way to hasten massive social change, than by forcing everyone to take such courses if the want their paperwork that they cant get the "job" without..........

Edit: on that note why does the federal govt, force institutions that accept govt backed loans and or grants etc. to teach mandatory courses that are slighted to a certain point of view. And Vehemently go after schools that dont accept federal backed dollars and look for ways to force them to capitulate

[gwb72tii]

A country, any country, needs ALL level of education. From basic professional training to higher level of college and university education. But endorsing brainwashing the young to be anti-American is very, very stupid.

Fixed for you

[Schnitzer318is]

I am not purposing any thing of the sort, I am mearly pointing out one of the more "nefarious" sides of the argument. I think putting ALL kids though "home-economics" in Jr high might help some of this. You know where you learn how to balance a check book, figure out a budget, how compound interest works and other basic life skills and knowledge.

I agree with your assessment, that its not the only thing or the biggest thing driving costs up, but I do feel its much more of a factor than most think it is. That and how degree programs are getting longer and longer and taking 5+ years to get through undergrad now that 20 years ago was a 4 year degree program or less with summer courses.

Gotcha. We agree on some of the reasons costs are rising disproportionately to inflation/COL, but probably disagree on how to fix it. Like some of the other most important industries... if left unregulated secondary education will become priced out of the reach of the masses. Sure, there are always scholarships, grants, etc. But speaking from experience, unless you are a minority, or are in the top .05% (I was top 4% of a rather large senior class) of your graduating class... you aren't going to do much better than loans. I had to take loans and smartened up before going too far into debt, but unfortunately, had to leave before earning a degree because of that. This was almost 20 years ago and tuition at the university I attended has almost quadrupled. Not un-coincidentally (if you ask me) after they got a D1 football team. Subsequently the campus has exploded with new buildings, parking garages, dorms, and other facilities.

I agree with you about having basic economics being taught in middle/high school. It's an invaluable thing to learn, especially since parents aren't doing their jobs anymore and are looking to blame it on anyone they can. Unfortunately, I don't think that would fix the problem with secondary education as all that would do is prevent many from even trying to get a degree when they realize they would be tens of thousands in debt to do so.

[smooth]

High schools have been teaching students economics for about the last 20 years.

Universities have never been about teaching students job skills--that's what a VoTech is for. If you find students fresh out of college are "dumb" in regards to what they need to do on the job, do a better job training them for the task you need completed.

Forbes had this to say about those "useless liberal arts degrees,"

Let’s consider the real-life career opportunities for the three degrees.

Liberal Arts

Numerous companies want these graduates. At the top of the list is Leidos (spelled incorrectly as “Leids” in the prototype): a large defense, intelligence, and homeland security contractor. Other companies include American Express and The Hartford Financial Services Group.

The jobs with highest demand for liberal arts majors are surprisingly diverse: intelligence analyst, client service specialist, signals intelligence (SIGINT) analyst, business development manager, and project manager—compelling, high-demand careers.

The top skills sought after are management, communications, research, and operations. Some of the top cities for these jobs are Columbia, Maryland, and McClean and Reston, Virginia (think about all the defense contracting).

History

What can you do with a degree in history? A lot more than teach! (Though there’s certainly an ample number of professorial positions.) Not surprisingly, the National Park Service and institutions such as the University of Maryland-University College are seeking history majors, but so are Aecom, Booz Allen Hamilton, and Deloitte.

Career options for history majors include intelligence analyst, management consultant, research analyst, and patient services rep. The top desired skills are management, research, teaching, communications, project management, and writing. Among the top cities for history majors are Washington, D.C., New York, Bethesda, Columbus, and Denver.

English

As with history, a degree in English doesn’t restrict you to dull-wage teaching jobs. The top positions for English majors include writer/editor, communication specialist, marketing coordinator, and sales manager. Companies seeking English majors are all over the map, ranging from health care to technology to logistics: United Health Care, Oracle, Amazon, and others.

Surprisingly, the most sought-after skill (after writing) is management. Other skills vary widely—everything from marketing to recruitment to operations. The top cities hiring for English majors are New York, Seattle, D.C., Chicago, Atlanta, and San Francisco.

I do find it amusing to see a bunch of people regurgitating bullshit about the primary and university education system that they either haven't stepped foot inside in decades or even never.

[z31maniac]

I'll make sure to tell them that the next time I order coffee.