Trump Thread 2.0

[mrsleeve]

^

I pointed out why your knee jerk interpretation is likely a bit hasty already. This admin has recently been pushing Merit based immigration, ( H1B visa abuse goes way back ) you know people with skills, education and what not, and a recent visit with the Norwegians was likely fresh in the idiots mind hence why it was the region tossed on the table. Just as likely an explanation as your race biased reading more into something that is not there interpretation when there is again NO RACIAL component to the term "shithole"......

to be clear I am not a supporter of Merit based immigration policy, its unamerican imo. I dont care where you come from just come through the proper way, and submit to the proper back ground checks, and so on to become a part of where you want to live.....

[decay]

^

I pointed out why your knee jerk interpretation is likely a bit hasty already.

first, no it isn't- there is already a well-established precedent of racism in this administration that dates back to the campaign trail, and second, it wasn't me you were talking to.

This admin has recently been pushing Merit based immigration, ( H1B visa abuse goes way back ) you know people with skills, education and what not, and a recent visit with the Norwegians was likely fresh in the idiots mind hence why it was the region tossed on the table. Just as likely an explanation as your race biased reading more into something that is not there interpretation when there is again NO RACIAL component to the term "shithole"......

dude, if you don't see how "we don't want people from haiti and africa, we want norwegians" is racist, you are a fucking lost cause.

to be clear I am not a supporter of Merit based immigration policy, its unamerican imo. I dont care where you come from just come through the proper way, and submit to the proper back ground checks, and so on to become a part of where you want to live.....

well now you've actually said something interesting. why should the H1-B visa system not be merit-based? don't we want the most qualified person doing the given job?

background checks are being done- my last 3 jobs have required them, and i'm a citizen.

if you saw how many of my tech coworkers were from some part of asia (usually china/india/pakistan) you'd understand how short we are on talent here. the people affected by this aren't driving pickup trucks and dragging TIGs around, we're managing infrastructure for billion-dollar finance companies (example: i had two calls with JP Morgan-Chase this week). the fact of the matter is that our education system has not produced the talent pool we need to make the work happen. if we stop issuing merit-based visas, we will fall behind as a country. you need to start thinking outside the scope of what you do. a country doesn't run on petroleum alone.

[mrsleeve]

^

1) The H1B visa system has been abused for a long time to keep labor rates down especially for big outfits in the tech business. H1Bs should be merit based for sure, and the companies hiring them are of course doing their own due dillagnce I would think.

2) I didnt say I agree with the statement, I am just not flinging the race card and getting high and mighty over something that is not inherently racist this is something that tossed around a lot about a lot of things that dont meet the criteria.

3) Any time I change employers, and every 3 years with my current (their policy) I have to go see the cops have my fingerprints taken, and then sent off to the FBI for a full background check.... I have a CCW, and DL from my home state, a RAD cert from the state of IL, a Trainers Card for the state of TX, my Federal "TWIC" card, and my fucking passport all on file and I still have to undergo backgrounds from some of our clients, and the TWIC is supposed to eliminate that since its a federal ID. Trust me I know about background checks.....

[rhE-30]

geez man, this buffoon is going to be in future history books.

[mrsleeve]

^

Nice ninja edit. I saw the original

[z31maniac]

it does have a racial connotation when you use that word to describe countries/continents that are primarily black or mixed ethnicity, and then say that you want to immigrate people from a scandinavian country instead.

there's no way that's not racist.

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” that's what america is supposed to be.

disagree if you want, that's your right, but it makes you part of the problem.

Sounds like you just assumed their race.

Bigot.

[decay]

Sounds like you just assumed their race.

Bigot.

are you trying to be funny?

not a great attempt, but i hope so.

[rhE-30]

^

Nice ninja edit. I saw the original

Well. Good. I may have to harsh of words so i did the edit. The point is though you are defending a buffoon only becuase some of his decisions are beneficial to some people. Screw the collaterall damage, and what they think is nonsense seems to be your mindset.



You said he was implying we should only take in skilled workers. Why should we have to decipher what he is implying? He is a genius, that should be a simple statement. Why is your tendency to assume his implication is not race related when many of his other actions are of somebody who is a racist. Review his family history and there apartment buildings tenant history. The fbi investgated him for discrimination of minority tenants in the 1970s. He has not been out dropping n-bombs since then but do you know a racist person that actually does it out in public for everyone to see?
He is a racist, a liar, a theif, a traitor, and here you are defending cause you get a tax break.

[mrsleeve]

Well. Good. I may have to harsh of words so i did the edit. The point is though you are defending a buffoon only becuase some of his decisions are beneficial to some people. Screw the collaterall damage, and what they think is nonsense seems to be your mindset.

You said he was implying we should only take in skilled workers. Why should we have to decipher what he is implying? He is a genius, that should be a simple statement. Why is your tendency to assume his implication is not race related when many of his other actions are of somebody who is a racist. Review his family history and there apartment buildings tenant history. The fbi investgated him for discrimination of minority tenants in the 1970s. He has not been out dropping n-bombs since then but do you know a racist person that actually does it out in public for everyone to see?
He is a racist, a liar, a theif, a traitor, and here you are defending cause you get a tax break.

HUH, I am fairly sure I am on record as not liking the guy, let alone agree with much of what comes out of his mouth.

1) You are reaching back to the 1970s to try to justify your position, I am reaching back to what? Last Tuesday I am saying lets be reasonable and not read more into things than are there..... The FBI investigated and didnt find any wrong doing in 70's correct... You want to talk about investigations and political candidates lets talk about the Clinton's

2) Colaertal damage, yes I am sure you will be bitching about your lower tax bill for 2018 with more of your own money in your pocket by December, or how about the million+ rank and file employees at ATT, Walmart, Comcast, PNC, Alaska Airlines, American Airlines, U.S. bank, FIAT/Chrysler and many others paying out 1000 dollar or larger bonuses, raising wages and benefits or any combination of the 3 thanks to the tax laws. How about the newly announced manufacturing plans from Toyota/Mazda in AL to the tune of 1.6b dollar facility, 300k units a year built by 4000 new employees with average pay of 50k a year. Or Fiat bringing the HD truck line assembly back to MI from Mexico with a billion+ dollar investment in overhauling its assembly facility in Warren MI and add 2500 permanent good paying jobs back to the area. thanks to a tax over haul. These are things that come to mind off the top of my head and are fresh in my mind, I know there are more.

Hows your 401k/IRA/ Investment accounts doing in the last 12 months, I know I am up 5 figures on all of mine, so I am sure your going fine too.

Think with your head and not feelers....

3) Liar..... DUHHHHH of course he is, hes a businessman turned to politics let me show you my shocked face .............


4) traitor.... *Cough Hillary as Secretary of State ffs. *Cough Clinton Foundation, *Cough Cinton/Obama Uranium One

5) Lastly again I am not defending the stupidity of the comment, it was a dumb way to make a point especially when left to open interpretation.

I am calling into question all the knee jerk looking for anything to bitch about read into it reactions form the more snow flaky types. I am not invoking a race card until its warranted, I urge you to do the same.

[mbonder]

I am calling into question all the knee jerk looking for anything to bitch about read into it reactions form the more snow flaky types. I am not invoking a race card until its warranted, I urge you to do the same.

When exactly would you call something racist? I'm going to take it from the opposite direction and say that rather than people assume what you think would be a racist comment, you just tell everyone what it is. At least that way we can avoid these silly arguments regarding Trump because I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that something like this is going to happen regularly for the duration of his presidency.


I'm going to ask a completely different question to maybe get some actual discussion going.

If the goal of the tax reform was to put more money into the pockets of many Americans (I'm not going to debate whether it actually does this or not, we'll see as the future unfolds). Why not raise the minimum wage for all workers? Wouldn't this effectively put more money into the pockets of many Americans? Especially those that are under the poverty line who would benefit the most from such a move?

If companies have the money to expand facilities or give $1000 handouts because of the tax reform, shouldn't they have the money to sustain higher wages, like say $15/hour minimum?

It's a curiosity that I've got because it seems as though the tax reform was sold as attempting to further power the economy by putting more dollars into circulation rather than into government coffers through taxes, raising the minimum wage would almost certainly do this very thing as people in poverty or just above it happen to spend nearly 100% of their income rather than saving, which would create a positive flow of dollars into the economy across a broad spectrum of businesses, which I would guess would help all through business prosperity and the subsequent expansion corporations would need to do to meet increased demand.

Alright, let's have fun with that one...

[cale]

Meh, I'll play devils advocate. Do I think Trump is an old racist white guy? Yes. Do I think he was thinking about the color of peoples skin when he used the term shithole? Nope

Haiti and many African nations are shitholes. They're full of crime, have high levels of corruption at all levels of government, lacking in terms of health care, poor education systems and generally a terrible place to live for all but the most privileged. I certainly don't condone a world leader failing to use some discretion when referring to them, but I don't disagree with his description. The problems faced by those countries are a result of a multitude of factors, none of which are the result of what color of skin they have. Does this mean I'm racist too?

[z31maniac]

I'm not even playing because you Frittatas don't understand the difference between racist and bigoted.

It's sad to be a faux intellectual.

[decay]

I'm not even playing because you Frittatas don't understand the difference between racist and bigoted.

It's sad to be a faux intellectual.

oh well we must need a hick okie to explain it all to us, then. *eyeroll*

there. see how that sounds?

that's how my friend mike, who's an immigrant from nigeria and has a good job in finance, feels. dude is pissed and lost his shit on facebook. and he's not a "snowflake"- africa doesn't breed those.

i still disagree with you because the demographics he seems to desire are pretty clearly delineated- but do you have a good reason for splitting hairs on exactly what kind of asshole drumpf is being?

[mbonder]

Meh, I'll play devils advocate. Do I think Trump is an old racist white guy? Yes. Do I think he was thinking about the color of peoples skin when he used the term shithole? Nope

Haiti and many African nations are shitholes. They're full of crime, have high levels of corruption at all levels of government, lacking in terms of health care, poor education systems and generally a terrible place to live for all but the most privileged. I certainly don't condone a world leader failing to use some discretion when referring to them, but I don't disagree with his description. The problems faced by those countries are a result of a multitude of factors, none of which are the result of what color of skin they have. Does this mean I'm racist too?

I'm not disagreeing with the description you've written (at least from afar, I've never been to any of these countries so I don't know firsthand). However, your response doesn't address the context in which Trump called those areas a shithole. The context was related to allowing people from European (predominantly white) countries into the country instead of from the "shithole" countries (which were predominantly minority populations).

Just because a country as a whole isn't the greatest place to live, doesn't mean that there aren't great people there who could contribute greatly to the American economy and community by emigrating here.

And for z31maniac:

Racist: a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Bigot:a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

Not quite sure what you are getting at with your comment because you failed to elaborate at all (maybe in fear of being labeled a "faux intellectual").

However, we are discussing whether Trump's comments are racist or not. With the exception of Cale asking if he was a racist or not, I don't see how the term bigot applies beyond people disagreeing with each other's opinions of Trump's use of the word shithole to describe countries that the US should accept people from. The term bigot wouldn't apply to Trump or his comments in this example as far as I can see.

[cale]

Because what he demonstrated was bigotry, not racism. Unfortunately being labelled a bigot in the media doesn't receive the same response, nor would senators receive the same support if they were to use bigot instead of racist. Should've tried to draw parallels to Hitler while they were at it, that'd have garnered support!

No, I don't accept your review of the context. He's a grumpy old fuck who's stuck in his ways who has no filter, and it showed.