Trump Thread 2.0

[phillipj]

Do you believe profitable industry results in overall harm?

Before you jump to noting specific outlying examples of corperate abuse, think for a moment on the effect on at risk populations of failing industry, such as currently demonstrated in Venezuela. No food, basic med shortages, no power. Also few legally owned firearms so canÂ’t defend yourself against armed criminals.

I would argue a thrivig capitalist society results in greater overall good for its citizens than the typical socialist societies of the past century.

Please, just some very friendly advice to maybe, if you'd like, do some thorough, serious research into the situation in Venezuela. It's not at all what our 24hr-news, President Trump --or the Neoliberal Democrats-- claim. It's cut from the same cloth, in many ways, as Iraq.

The US has put sanctions on their country to the tune of $30 million dollars PER DAY -- intentionally exacerbating problems in order to destabilize the country and accelerate regime change to a hand-picked outsider, who never received one Presidential vote, in order to release their Nationalized oil, and who knows what other resources, to our corporations. That should be the scandal.

The US then turns around and tries to drive in a heavily publicized $20M "aid" shipment into Venezuela without any coordination with their government or with any major aid agencies, on a bridge that wasn't even open! We then declare Venezuelan President Maduro one of the great socialist monsters of history for "not letting it in" and harming his people like this. The Red Cross refused to participate in Washington's stunt declaring it "politically motivated" and not at all humanitarian.

I could go on. We are not an honest or a good country in so many of our actions in the world. Our actions are nearly always corporately motivated and have very little care for the will or the betterment of the actual people.

[Jokester]

dude, don't even bother with this idiot.

anyone who can watch the president neuter the EPA that keeps our air and drinking water safe, and the department of education that teaches our children, and[list continues], and say he's "doing a good job" while appealing to the rest of us to stop "being so emotional" is a fucktard of such massive proportions that anything you type (and what i'm typing right now) is a net negative for whatever energy you have today.

don't engage.

I can tell you’re from the Bay lmao.
Didn’t mean to hurt your feelings, have a good one.

[coldweatherblue]

Please, just some very friendly advice to maybe, if you'd like, do some thorough, serious research into the situation in Venezuela. It's not at all what our 24hr-news, President Trump --or the Neoliberal Democrats-- claim. It's cut from the same cloth, in many ways, as Iraq.

The US has put sanctions on their country to the tune of $30 million dollars PER DAY -- intentionally exacerbating problems in order to destabilize the country and accelerate regime change to a hand-picked outsider, who never received one Presidential vote, in order to release their Nationalized oil, and who knows what other resources, to our corporations. That should be the scandal.

The US then turns around and tries to drive in a heavily publicized $20M "aid" shipment into Venezuela without any coordination with their government or with any major aid agencies, on a bridge that wasn't even open! We then declare Venezuelan President Maduro one of the great socialist monsters of history for "not letting it in" and harming his people like this. The Red Cross refused to participate in Washington's stunt declaring it "politically motivated" and not at all humanitarian.

I could go on. We are not an honest or a good country in so many of our actions in the world. Our actions are nearly always corporately motivated and have very little care for the will or the betterment of the actual people.

Your response has nothing to do with anything I posted.

[Jokester]

If you think anything that trump is doing will fix or worsen the public schooling system in America, you’ve never been to a public school lmao. Please don’t try to tell me that Obama helped the school system either because then I will lose all faith in humanity.

Just sounds like a bunch of complaining to me. I’ve seen many kids, of all races, all backgrounds, and all situations come out of the public system and go to very successful colleges, and then later get a career that is secured for life. It’s bullshit to call the education system “bad” because of trump. If people from the bottom of barrel can get to the top, why can’t the rest of them?

The teachers that push their respective political views and ideas are what causes issues in the classroom. The United States has become a better place to live since he came into office, sure we still have issues, but life is getting better. We do have issues in relation to other countries, but you can’t move a mountain in a day, Trump even said he was going to focus on the United States first, and I respect that.

I respect the insults though, shows credibility.

[phillipj]

Your response has nothing to do with anything I posted.

Originally Posted by coldweatherblue:
Do you believe profitable industry results in overall harm?

Before you jump to noting specific outlying examples of corperate abuse, think for a moment on the effect on at risk populations of failing industry, such as currently demonstrated in Venezuela. No food, basic med shortages, no power. Also few legally owned firearms so canÂ’t defend yourself against armed criminals.

I would argue a thrivig capitalist society results in greater overall good for its citizens than the typical socialist societies of the past century.

I mentioned only bc you cite the current havoc in Venezuela as an example of the perils of Socialist societies of old, but there's just so much more complexity to that situation, which I tried to illuminate in some detail -- namely extremely powerful global economic and political outside forces/vested interests.

My bad though, I really feel that this is a waste of good time.

[saucers]

If you think anything that trump is doing will fix or worsen the public schooling system in America, you’ve never been to a public school lmao. Please don’t try to tell me that Obama helped the school system either because then I will lose all faith in humanity.

Just sounds like a bunch of complaining to me. I’ve seen many kids, of all races, all backgrounds, and all situations come out of the public system and go to very successful colleges, and then later get a career that is secured for life. It’s bullshit to call the education system “bad” because of trump. If people from the bottom of barrel can get to the top, why can’t the rest of them?

The teachers that push their respective political views and ideas are what causes issues in the classroom. The United States has become a better place to live since he came into office, sure we still have issues, but life is getting better. We do have issues in relation to other countries, but you can’t move a mountain in a day, Trump even said he was going to focus on the United States first, and I respect that.

I respect the insults though, shows credibility.

Here's a chart for you..
but Trump wants to cut education budgets, "america first!"

[phillipj]

Both the House and Senate voted to end US Military Operations in Yemen in Bipartisan Fashion. It's the World's worst humanitarian crisis.

And yesterday President Trump vetoed it. American Conservative Link

He is subservient to Saudi Arabia, moreso than any US President before him, and that is really saying something. He's ramped up this unjust war, covered up for their brutal bone-saw murder of an innocent journalist, given them our Nuclear secrets, in secret, without any oversight, and now this -- defied the check on war powers like a true dictator.

It's despicable, it is the true 'collusion'-- which isn't with Russia but with Riyadh.

[Schnitzer318is]

If you think anything that trump is doing will fix or worsen the public schooling system in America, you’ve never been to a public school lmao. Please don’t try to tell me that Obama helped the school system either because then I will lose all faith in humanity.

If he cuts budgets it might hurt the public school system. The boards already siphon out, or waste, as much money as they can... as does any other politician. Cut the budgets and that siphoning just becomes a larger percentage of available funds. But I agree he is not hurting it, or helping it, anymore than Obama did. The parents are the real problem with our school systems. If a child gets into trouble at school they ask what the school or teacher did wrong, not the more appropriate, "what did my child do wrong?" Also, "no child left behind" was about the worst policy decision ever. To quote one of my favorite movies... "the world needs ditch diggers too."

Just sounds like a bunch of complaining to me. I’ve seen many kids, of all races, all backgrounds, and all situations come out of the public system and go to very successful colleges, and then later get a career that is secured for life. It’s bullshit to call the education system “bad” because of trump. If people from the bottom of barrel can get to the top, why can’t the rest of them?

Ignoring the disenfranchised as lazy is a terrible way to look at the problem. That's like thinking any homeless person could go from being homeless to living in a mansion if they would only work hard. True, a very small percentage may be able to do that. But it is certainly not going to happen for every one of them even if they all worked to the same degree of effort.

The United States has become a better place to live since he came into office, sure we still have issues, but life is getting better. We do have issues in relation to other countries, but you can’t move a mountain in a day, Trump even said he was going to focus on the United States first, and I respect that.

I disagree that America is a better place... it's much the same place really. The middle class continues to get squeezed under Trump as they have under previous administrations. Corporations are allowed to get bigger, and wealthier, at the expense of a true free market. Capitalism is dying and the Republican voters have their blinders on. Anti trust laws need to be put to use in most large industries to promote growth... farming, tech, communications, health care, etc.

[Jokester]

Cutting funds may seem like a bad idea, but once money leaves a certain field it gives it an opportunity to thrive again with people who actually want to be there. Thus we would get people who want to teach and better the society.

I’m not saying a homeless man can become a millionaire, the point of life isn’t to become a millionaire.

I’m saying that homeless man can go to school, even if it’s trade, get a solid career that will let him live safely not lavishly, if you stay poor your entire life in the US, it is your fault, unless you are terminally ill or not able to work.

Capitalism is not dying....
I’m in the middle class, in a democratic state and I’m still doing great. I could only imagine how people are doing in republican states right now.

If you put anti trust laws into those giant types of business, investment with decrease heavily. It is working how it is right now, why change it? Health care is something that will never be perfect, but we can work on it.

If the lifestyle of California wasn’t so great, I’d never live here.

[Jokester]

Here's a chart for you..
but Trump wants to cut education budgets, "america first!"

The amount of money put into a system doesn’t directly impact its results. We easily have the most money in education yet we aren’t the highest ranking? Coincidence?

We need better teachers, students who want to go to school in the US, and parents that actually give a fuck about their kid’s future.

[z31maniac]

Cutting funds may seem like a bad idea, but once money leaves a certain field it gives it an opportunity to thrive again with people who actually want to be there. Thus we would get people who want to teach and better the society.

This is an interesting theory. I have never heard of LOWERING pay, benefits, or the resources necessary to doing your job, being a great way to attract better and brighter talent to an organization. You already only get people who want to teach because of the low compensation.

In Oklahoma, someone who went to school to get a 4-year degree, currently starts at $30k/year, for a public school teacher. Or $7k less than my first job out of college 13 years ago.


For example, do you think I would have packed up moved away from friends and family to a company that was offering worse pay, benefits, or opportunities for advancement?

Or did I pack up and move away for much better and cheaper benefits, a chance to get promotions and possibly live in other cities, a $25k/yr raise, and a $35k sign-on bonus?

[Jokester]

This is an interesting theory. I have never heard of LOWERING pay, benefits, or the resources necessary to doing your job, being a great way to attract better and brighter talent to an organization. You already only get people who want to teach because of the low compensation.

In Oklahoma, someone who went to school to get a 4-year degree, currently starts at $30k/year, for a public school teacher. Or $7k less than my first job out of college 13 years ago.


For example, do you think I would have packed up moved away from friends and family to a company that was offering worse pay, benefits, or opportunities for advancement?

Or did I pack up and move away for much better and cheaper benefits, a chance to get promotions and possibly live in other cities, a $25k/yr raise, and a $35k sign-on bonus?

I’m not saying it works for all, but many teachers get into teaching for the pension after 10 or so years. In my area teachers get paid 120ish thousand a year if they stay in the district for 10 or more years.

The school funding cuts would not directly impact the classroom. Or the teachers for that matter.

He is targeting the stupid public forgiveness program for student loans that Obama put in place, as well as reducing pay for students on campus to minimum wage. The areas he wants to remove are not effective in their plan anyways, summer school for example is a joke, less than 40% of the kids attend and yet they receive over 2 billion a year in funding....The media tries to push the idea that the cuts to funding will directly hurt teachers, when in reality it won’t.

He is also proposing a relocation 700 million into student health programs, to better the atmosphere of the school to help with depression, anxiety, stress etc. Proposing over 300 million in STEM focused school activities.
Media won’t tell you that.

Sports, extra curricular activities, and system expenses are fishy areas, I know of multiple scandals where people launder fundraiser money from the kids. Teachers should be paid adequately, but most see it as a money grab than an opportunity to change a kids life.

It’s not always black and white as you are trying to say it is. There are grey areas in the equation.

There is too much money in education for how we are performing, the cuts in funding are to try and squeeze out anyone who is in it for the wrong reason.

We need people who want to be in school, and teachers who want to build a better, more educated society, not a bunch of history teachers who like to push their respective political agendas.

[Schnitzer318is]

This is an interesting theory. I have never heard of LOWERING pay, benefits, or the resources necessary to doing your job, being a great way to attract better and brighter talent to an organization. You already only get people who want to teach because of the low compensation.

In Oklahoma, someone who went to school to get a 4-year degree, currently starts at $30k/year, for a public school teacher. Or $7k less than my first job out of college 13 years ago.

For example, do you think I would have packed up moved away from friends and family to a company that was offering worse pay, benefits, or opportunities for advancement?

Or did I pack up and move away for much better and cheaper benefits, a chance to get promotions and possibly live in other cities, a $25k/yr raise, and a $35k sign-on bonus?

Ding Ding Ding.

Isn't this the entire justification corporations give for those huge bonuses paid to executives and board members? Weirdest position I've seen taken by a conservative to justify cutting spending. Cut pay, it will yield better, and more dedicated staff. Don't think so.

Jokester, there is one equal motivator in this world. I don't care if you are a red or blue voter... and that's money. I just believe it should be in the hands of the many rather than the hands of the few. And giving a goodly amount of it to teachers would be an excellent way to attract good faculty. If any cuts in education need to be made (much like private enterprise and government), it needs to come from the top. Not the "boots on the ground" teachers or schools. Just as I am for cutting defense spending, but increasing active duty pay to the service members. None of those things are likely to happen, but that's what I support.

Jokester If you put anti trust laws into those giant types of business, investment with decrease heavily. It is working how it is right now, why change it? Health care is something that will never be perfect, but we can work on it.

Given your position for getting better teachers, I would have liked to hear how you justified that statement. I can give you many reasons that show it is not working. Monopolies, duopolies, etc. are the enemy of innovation and investment. Competition is the driving force. That's economics (and I thought Republican) 101. Like first day stuff.

1. Americans spend a disproportionate amount on health care compared to other developed nations. ~50% of total market share is only 6 companies.






2. America is not at the top of the internet service provider speed/quality spectrums even though it originated here and we are the home to Silicon Valley. The ISP market is dominated by only 5 or 6 companies who keep merging to get bigger and bigger. Regional monopolies have led to worsening investment and QoS because they don't have to compete. They pocket the money for profits and to pay share holders and exectives (who are the same people).






I could go on and on for most major industries. Deregulation and Citizens United has fostered an atmosphere of larger and larger corporations who operate in a less than scrupulous manner to squeeze out (or absorb and gut) competition. It happens all the time and the news is even present if your only news outlet is Fox.

[Schnitzer318is]

I’m not saying it works for all, but many teachers get into teaching for the pension after 10 or so years. In my area teachers get paid 120ish thousand a year if they stay in the district for 10 or more years.

$120,000 sounds like a lot huh? In California, that's the equivalent of around $50,000/yr in Texas. Cost of living adjustments for different regions need to be factored in. And they only get that after 10 years? What are they making when they start?

The school funding cuts would not directly impact the classroom. Or the teachers for that matter.

He is targeting the stupid public forgiveness program for student loans that Obama put in place, as well as reducing pay for students on campus to minimum wage. The areas he wants to remove are not effective in their plan anyways, summer school for example is a joke, less than 40% of the kids attend and yet they receive over 2 billion a year in funding....The media tries to push the idea that the cuts to funding will directly hurt teachers, when in reality it won’t.

You say it won't affect teachers but then say they want to cut summer school. Who teaches those classes? The teachers. Stop blaming the media. Both political parties do it and it's irritating.

He is also proposing a relocation 700 million into student health programs, to better the atmosphere of the school to help with depression, anxiety, stress etc. Proposing over 300 million in STEM focused school activities.
Media won’t tell you that.

Sports, extra curricular activities, and system expenses are fishy areas, I know of multiple scandals where people launder fundraiser money from the kids. Teachers should be paid adequately, but most see it as a money grab than an opportunity to change a kids life.

It’s not always black and white as you are trying to say it is. There are grey areas in the equation.

There is too much money in education for how we are performing, the cuts in funding are to try and squeeze out anyone who is in it for the wrong reason.

We need people who want to be in school, and teachers who want to build a better, more educated society, not a bunch of history teachers who like to push their respective political agendas.

That entire sentiment could be applied to politics, big business, campaigning, etc. "There's too much money in X" is the same reason big banks push for deregulation, health insurers raise premiums, politicians take money from private and corporate donors, etc, etc. As I said in the previous post. Money is the ultimate motivator for all sorts of behavior, both good and bad. Regulation is supposed to limit the "bad."

Trump supporters thought it was a good idea to put a businessman in the White House. All it did was put the fox in charge of the hen house. I'm all for having an outsider as president... but I'd put a businessman (most) right up there with a lawyer (most) or politician (again most) in terms of who I would trust to hold the position.

[decay]

I can tell you’re from the Bay lmao.
Didn’t mean to hurt your feelings, have a good one.

you haven't hurt anyone's feelings, little snowflake from riverside. we're just a little more direct up in norcal. i think our school districts might be a little better too, because someone from the bay would have realized i was talking about them, not to them.