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  • LowR3V'in
    replied
    that's coo.

    Leave a comment:


  • rhE-30
    replied
    does this case ever get brought up in the "epstein did not kill himself" circles? seems like it shouldn't be overlooked.

    Leave a comment:


  • phillipj
    replied
    Originally posted by marshallnoise View Post
    I don't understand why no one is talking about the complete setup that Flynn endured and what Trump had said about the case was verifiably accurate. The difference here is that Obama did weaponize the DOJ and no one seems to care.

    It was interesting...I listened to the radio last night and Dinesh D'Souza was on and pointed out the not so obvious...
    Hm. You're seriously talking like you don't realize that the FBI is doing what it has always done going back to J. Edgar Hoover: They set people up. They get people to self-incriminate. Many times going to great lengths to draw out and catch fairly inconsequential people. Even if that is somehow news to you, why have any sympathy for Flynn on this? At the time Flynn was a paid foreign agent of Turkey, which he kept secret and also lied about, and he had no official governmental authority or status with the United States yet he acted in tandem with Trump to thwart Official US Foreign Policy at that time. Then there's also the fact that Flynn did then lie to the FBI about talking to Russia. He then plead guilty for it and admitted he knew what he was doing was wrong when he was doing it.

    A funny aspect is that "evil" Obama warned Trump not to hire Flynn. Flynn's business partners were also indicted for being agents of a foreign government. Flynn actually got off with basically a slap on the wrist (Robert Mueller recommended Flynn serve no jail time) only because he ratted out his fellow business partner criminals in a separate Turkey Investigation. If Trump would have just taken Obama's advice and not hired Flynn in the first place, he would have likely never gotten a special counsel and all the shenanigans that came with it! Boy, but it must be Obama's fault. How about do your due diligence and hire somebody uncomprimised for your National Security Advisor.

    There's another interesting wrinkle here the general media and Trump and Republicans and Democrats don't really talk about, which is what was the content? What did Flynn talk to the Russians about for Trump (and then try to cover up)? I think it's because the real "collusion" is with Israel. Why that isn't treated as a major scandal I have no idea. I'm guessing because our establishment politicians on both sides of the aisle, especially President Trump, are basically bought by Israel -- not to mention the Saudis-- but, please correct me if you have a different informed opinion.

    So that's why people aren't really paying attention to that, aside from record job losses, 100k plus people dead in a health crisis and now rioting everywhere. Large parts of the US are basically a tinder box waiting to explode and we have a President who is quick to turn people against each other and spout off conspiracy theories or sell snake oil instead of manning up.

    I tend to think your heart is probably in the right place on a lot of this stuff, and I can imagine it's easy to get angry listening to right wing radio and people like Dinesh D'Souza. D'Souza is a liar, a complete con-man, he is an illogical pseudoscientist. He's a convicted felon who should have done time, yet he barely got a slap on the wrist, and Trump pardoned him anyway! Reminds me so much of Flynn! with the fact that he broke actual laws, pled guilty to them, and also admitted that he knew what he was doing violated the law at the time he was doing it. Yet he later portrays himself as a victim and his conviction was only because of an evil Obama conspiracy! At least Flynn isn't an alleged wife beater and adulterer like D'Souza. But the fact that he is a racism denier and a slavery and colonialism apologist probably sours me more on him. Or maybe it's his asinine views on 9/11. Maybe his mocking of the Stoneman Douglas kids. You could go on and on, hard to pick just one! This guy is a hack & a despicable human being.


    Originally posted by marshallnoise
    IYou are a very confusing person to understand man. You sound reasonable and then you write a sentence like the last one that is really almost bi-polar.

    Unfortunately, you might get sick because I don't think the President has anything to apologize for in relation to the pandemic. No president would be looking good throughout this insane time we are going through.
    Ha! Well I am not looking for Trump to save me. President Bonespurs is only out to save himself, anyway. I do seriously have a problem with Trump apologists, though, ie. "No president would be looking good." Oh really? The country needs unity and clarity and consistency, always, but especially in times like this. It's just so simple to see this guy is incompetent and careless. Dangerous, insecure and hateful. Sure, there's a lot of Democrats that suck too, and I am all about that. But we can not equate the true lack of leadership of Donald Trump to any other in this dire time.
    Last edited by phillipj; Yesterday, 01:59 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • marshallnoise
    replied
    Originally posted by CarpHunter View Post

    Plead guilty, agreed to work with investigation for a reduced sentence. You can read the actual plea agreement yourself. Try doing so. And legally a guilty plea is an admission of guilt, that's literally the definition.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spec...%E2%80%932019)
    If you are innocent, but don't have the financial ability to put up a fight, you will take a plea bargain. It is not an admission of guilt in any sense except in the purely technical definition. Let's put it this way...if you are tried for some specific crime called crime A, but you committed other petty crimes B, C & D and the prosecutor does not want to go to trial for crime A but can get you to accept punishment on lesser charges, you never plead guilty to crime A, only B, C & D. Same situation if you are going to be poor as shit. They have enough to take you to trial, but you strike a bargain to avoid all that.

    "A plea bargain is a negotiated agreement between a criminal defendant and a prosecutor in which the defendant agrees to plead "guilty" or "no contest" to some crimes, along with possible conditions, such as attending anger management classes, in return for reduction of the severity of the charges, dismissal of some of the charges, or some other benefit to the defendant. A defendant must uphold his or her end of the deal, such as pleading guilty on a particular date, cooperating in the investigation of another offense, or testifying against a co-defendant.or the plea bargain may be revoked."

    https://definitions.uslegal.com/p/plea-bargain/

    It is quite a bit more nuanced than you are trying to make it.

    What? You have so many conflicting ideas it's hard to follow. All seems pretty victimy to me, bo ho we're in control of everything but this secret conspiracy is stopping us. If the statement from the article you link is proof of a deep state against trump, then wouldn't McConnell's statement to the press about "making obama a one term president" be proof of a deep state against obama?

    On one hand republicans are being blocked by a conspiracy, then on the other their getting everything they want done. So their not being blocked then?

    Life long establishment politicians are the problem, yet you vote them in year after year?

    As far as the unconstitutional laws, there's actually a government website that tracks that ironically. So if your truly interested you can dig into yourself. But here's a few to get you started. How bout the multiple north Carolina districting maps, multiple state voting laws, multiple state laws violating the civil rights act, the multiple teams bathroom laws, the multiple anti LGBTQ laws. All cases of actual republicans passing actual laws that strip actual americans of their actual rights.

    I think we can figure this all out with one simple question. And please truly give this some thought and answer honestly. We have to set a baseline.

    Do you vote based on politician or party?

    And I mean purely party vs party, no inter party stuff. Me personally, I vote based on politician, I've voted for members of both parties. In local, state, and national elections. I just want the best person, don't give a damn about party affiliation.
    I don't think I have any conflicting ideas. The problem is that you think that I think is wrong so you couldn't see it from my side if you wanted to. Apparently you don't get the fact that there isn't a conspiracy at all, its reality that the Dems are locked in tight with the media and lifelong bureaucrats. Over 90% of the media voted for Hillary in 2016. Either way, you will dismiss all of this as nonsense because for your worldview to hold, you have to believe in the dogma of the left. Its cool.

    Mitch McConnell is not part of the Deep State, he is part of the Establishment. You don't seem to understand what the Deep State is. If you did, you would know that Mitch McConnell, an elected Senator. The Deep State are staffers who float from rep to rep for decades at a time. They are unelected and are actually pulling many of the levers of government.

    In what universe are the republicans getting everything they want done? The first term they had both houses and could have done great things, but Paul Ryan did everything he could to filter the Trump agenda. Now, you may see it as anything that the republicans pass is exactly what you are against, but most conservatives see two distinct factions within the Republican Party. Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell blocked much of what Trump wanted to do and when they had their chance to fix Obamacare, those two made sure it didn't happen. God knows why. I was pissed, most of my family and friends were pissed and I know Trump was pissed too. That's why he talks shit on Paul Ryan so much and why Paul Ryan talks shit on Trump. The past two years have had a split house. The only thing that gets done is Senate confirmation of constitutionalist judges and stupid pandemic bills that are just killing us more. Nancy Pelosi is driving the latest relief package down everyone's throats filled with all sorts of leftist garbage. With any luck, that shit won't get past the Senate.

    Thanks for the link to that website you are referring to. Again, your whole perspective is 180 from mine so we aren't going to get anywhere. You are just hurling ideas out as if they are fact. Asking for proof of your person-hood before going into a voting booth is not racist...yet, I am sure you would disagree. I do not think that men identifying as women should be allowed to go into a woman's restroom, you probably have no problem with that.

    To your very, very silly question, I vote the most conservative person who lines up with my values. Most of them claim to be Republicans. Since that is true, you get some stupid morally relevant victory here by claiming I am partisan. Oh well. If you haven't read anything I have written that shows very clearly that I disagree with many things that Republicans do, then I don't know what to tell you.

    Leave a comment:


  • CarpHunter
    replied
    Ironically, you seem to forget that being coerced into accepting a plea bargain is not the same thing as pleading guilty to any charges other than for the purposes of not financially being wrecked (like Flynn was facing). It is not, technically an admission of guilt. Its a bargain.
    Plead guilty, agreed to work with investigation for a reduced sentence. You can read the actual plea agreement yourself. Try doing so. And legally a guilty plea is an admission of guilt, that's literally the definition.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spec...%E2%80%932019)

    Well, if that was the case, Trump would not be president, the Republicans wouldn't hold the Senate and the courts would not be tilting back towards the rule of law.

    And denying that the deep state exists is just flat out silly at this point. https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ligence-215537 Life long bureaucrats are in the government and they do what they want.

    Clearly my politics are not hugely unpopular. They are just unpopular with you, the media and the deep state. What policies are being shot down by the SCOTUS that are conservative policies?

    Don't confuse my defense of conservative values as being thrilled with how Republicans have performed on spending, heathcare policy, etc. There is an establishment problem in our government and that includes Republicans (Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, etc) and the establishment Democrats (Pelosi, etc) and they play nice behind the scenes and put on a show for the public.

    This is why an irreverent prick like Trump makes the most sense to be president; he pisses both of them off.
    What? You have so many conflicting ideas it's hard to follow. All seems pretty victimy to me, bo ho we're in control of everything but this secret conspiracy is stopping us. If the statement from the article you link is proof of a deep state against trump, then wouldn't McConnell's statement to the press about "making obama a one term president" be proof of a deep state against obama?

    On one hand republicans are being blocked by a conspiracy, then on the other their getting everything they want done. So their not being blocked then?

    Life long establishment politicians are the problem, yet you vote them in year after year?

    As far as the unconstitutional laws, there's actually a government website that tracks that ironically. So if your truly interested you can dig into yourself. But here's a few to get you started. How bout the multiple north Carolina districting maps, multiple state voting laws, multiple state laws violating the civil rights act, the multiple teams bathroom laws, the multiple anti LGBTQ laws. All cases of actual republicans passing actual laws that strip actual americans of their actual rights.

    I think we can figure this all out with one simple question. And please truly give this some thought and answer honestly. We have to set a baseline.

    Do you vote based on politician or party?

    And I mean purely party vs party, no inter party stuff. Me personally, I vote based on politician, I've voted for members of both parties. In local, state, and national elections. I just want the best person, don't give a damn about party affiliation.

    Leave a comment:


  • marshallnoise
    replied
    Originally posted by phillipj View Post

    Well, you are fortunate to live in Montana. I'd like to be there fishing right now! Or to be building a really wonderful house for someone. My cousin and her husband just bought a ranch there and I really hope to visit in the near future. Our other cousin who lives around Park City has offered to take me up there and also to Jackson, Wy. to fish.

    I think our outlook on CV19 would be more similar if we lived in more similar places. I know a couple young families here in Los Angeles where everyone (2 families of four) got sick and went to the hospital and they're not doing well. I do not personally know anyone who has died (yet). My sister lives in New York City and everything has been shut down for her. The Doorman of her building died two weeks ago from this. She's now left the state with her BF, she lost her all of her jobs. I also lost my job. My employer of the past year and a half actually is using this moment to close up shop completely. I'll scrap and find something else.

    It does make me sick if anyone is making excuses for the President's posture during the Pandemic. I can not think of too many things more despicable than some of these tweets and one liners and the blatant propaganda/misinfo while we have like 100k people dead. It's really not acceptable.
    You are a very confusing person to understand man. You sound reasonable and then you write a sentence like the last one that is really almost bi-polar.

    Unfortunately, you might get sick because I don't think the President has anything to apologize for in relation to the pandemic. No president would be looking good throughout this insane time we are going through.

    Leave a comment:


  • marshallnoise
    replied
    Originally posted by CarpHunter View Post
    It's pretty easy to understand, there was no "complete setup". You seem to either be ignoring or are unaware of the facts. Mainly that he Plead Guilty to knowingly lying to the fbi. A federal crime.
    Ironically, you seem to forget that being coerced into accepting a plea bargain is not the same thing as pleading guilty to any charges other than for the purposes of not financially being wrecked (like Flynn was facing). It is not, technically an admission of guilt. Its a bargain.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...35f_story.html

    https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciar...ybe-others-too

    Originally posted by CarpHunter View Post
    Or maybe that's a poor excuse for failed policy and leadership. It's easy to blame a mysterious bogeyman or "deep state" conspiracy bull shit. It's harder to admit that your politics are hugely unpopular, which all polling continually shows. Or that your policies are complete failures or continually get shot down by the scotus for being unconstitutional. Look at republican fiscal policy, total failure every single time. But instead of admitting that, it's double down on trickle down. Cause you know, 17th times the charm. Or how bout republican health care policy, oh wait, their still working on that. Only been promising a replacement for 10 years now?
    Well, if that was the case, Trump would not be president, the Republicans wouldn't hold the Senate and the courts would not be tilting back towards the rule of law.

    And denying that the deep state exists is just flat out silly at this point. https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ligence-215537 Life long bureaucrats are in the government and they do what they want.

    Clearly my politics are not hugely unpopular. They are just unpopular with you, the media and the deep state. What policies are being shot down by the SCOTUS that are conservative policies?

    Don't confuse my defense of conservative values as being thrilled with how Republicans have performed on spending, heathcare policy, etc. There is an establishment problem in our government and that includes Republicans (Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, etc) and the establishment Democrats (Pelosi, etc) and they play nice behind the scenes and put on a show for the public.

    This is why an irreverent prick like Trump makes the most sense to be president; he pisses both of them off.

    Leave a comment:


  • CarpHunter
    replied
    Originally posted by marshallnoise View Post
    I don't understand why no one is talking about the complete setup that Flynn endured and what Trump had said about the case was verifiably accurate. The difference here is that Obama did weaponize the DOJ and no one seems to care.

    It's pretty easy to understand, there was no "complete setup". You seem to either be ignoring or are unaware of the facts. Mainly that he Plead Guilty to knowingly lying to the fbi. A federal crime.

    It was interesting...I listened to the radio last night and Dinesh D'Souza was on and pointed out the not so obvious. Conservatives have the Executive, the Senate and the upper courts, yet Republicans are always on their heels. The wheels of government are definitively Republican, but they do not control the narrative. The Democrats do. And he stated that was because the life long government staffers and the media are allies of the Democrats and therefore control the bullhorn.

    Or maybe that's a poor excuse for failed policy and leadership. It's easy to blame a mysterious bogeyman or "deep state" conspiracy bull shit. It's harder to admit that your politics are hugely unpopular, which all polling continually shows. Or that your policies are complete failures or continually get shot down by the scotus for being unconstitutional. Look at republican fiscal policy, total failure every single time. But instead of admitting that, it's double down on trickle down. Cause you know, 17th times the charm. Or how bout republican health care policy, oh wait, their still working on that. Only been promising a replacement for 10 years now?

    Leave a comment:


  • phillipj
    replied
    Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post

    My state has 478 cases and 16 deaths in the state and I know for fact that the 2 in my county were people that were very ill with other things, as were a significant chunk of Italian deaths ( you know the people that were tracking the rona as a comorbidity factor / complication of more serious illness)

    Of course there have faults and missteps blunders and gaffs from both sides. I would say the federal response has been about on par with what I would have expected no matter the leadership we have had in Washington in my lifetime or well before my time began. You dont see the slew of state gov's heavy handing the population with restrictive stay at home orders on the guise of "because I said so", refusal to give up "emergency powers" and grandstanding on every media outlet that will give them air time. Surely you see the ineptitude of Gov Cuomo for example as, as bad or worse getting on TV and beating his bully pulpit as hard as the trumpster daily.

    This is hardly a crisis, there have been many of these things though out history in 1957 an Asian flu circled the globe killing about 1.1m world wide and over a 100k in the USA. Again in 1968 lasting on though early 1970, again with a similar death toll to the 1957 outbreak, killing mostly older people with underlying heath issues.

    Then we could explore what the impact of classifying millions upon millions of people as "nonessential" and what that will do to the mentality of that society, and to the society as whole. There will be serious repercussions that no one can really forecast, from those actions.

    Well, you are fortunate to live in Montana. I'd like to be there fishing right now! Or to be building a really wonderful house for someone. My cousin and her husband just bought a ranch there and I really hope to visit in the near future. Our other cousin who lives around Park City has offered to take me up there and also to Jackson, Wy. to fish.

    I think our outlook on CV19 would be more similar if we lived in more similar places. I know a couple young families here in Los Angeles where everyone (2 families of four) got sick and went to the hospital and they're not doing well. I do not personally know anyone who has died (yet). My sister lives in New York City and everything has been shut down for her. The Doorman of her building died two weeks ago from this. She's now left the state with her BF, she lost her all of her jobs. I also lost my job. My employer of the past year and a half actually is using this moment to close up shop completely. I'll scrap and find something else.

    It does make me sick if anyone is making excuses for the President's posture during the Pandemic. I can not think of too many things more despicable than some of these tweets and one liners and the blatant propaganda/misinfo while we have like 100k people dead. It's really not acceptable.

    Leave a comment:


  • mrsleeve
    replied
    Originally posted by phillipj View Post

    God, I wish I was on an isle during CV19! Like Hawaii (17 deaths) or New Zealand (21). They've managed it well!!
    My state has 478 cases and 16 deaths in the state and I know for fact that the 2 in my county were people that were very ill with other things, as were a significant chunk of Italian deaths ( you know the people that were tracking the rona as a comorbidity factor / complication of more serious illness)

    Originally posted by phillipj
    Seriously, though, sure, we always seem to be awash in propaganda and spin from both sides of our supremely flawed political aisles. But are you trying to fully equate Trump's performance during CV19 to anyone or anything else, now, or during any other national crisis? And as a way to shed or minimize his very significant responsibilities that come part and parcel with the leadership role of POTUS?
    Of course there have faults and missteps blunders and gaffs from both sides. I would say the federal response has been about on par with what I would have expected no matter the leadership we have had in Washington in my lifetime or well before my time began. You dont see the slew of state gov's heavy handing the population with restrictive stay at home orders on the guise of "because I said so", refusal to give up "emergency powers" and grandstanding on every media outlet that will give them air time. Surely you see the ineptitude of Gov Cuomo for example as, as bad or worse getting on TV and beating his bully pulpit as hard as the trumpster daily.

    This is hardly a crisis, there have been many of these things though out history in 1957 an Asian flu circled the globe killing about 1.1m world wide and over a 100k in the USA. Again in 1968 lasting on though early 1970, again with a similar death toll to the 1957 outbreak, killing mostly older people with underlying heath issues.

    Then we could explore what the impact of classifying millions upon millions of people as "nonessential" and what that will do to the mentality of that society, and to the society as whole. There will be serious repercussions that no one can really forecast, from those actions.

    Leave a comment:


  • phillipj
    replied
    Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post

    While I agree with what your saying, I am wondering if you see this happening on both sides of the isle or are you just directing this at one particular bully pulpit ?
    God, I wish I was on an isle during CV19! Like Hawaii (17 deaths) or New Zealand (21). They've managed it well!!

    Seriously, though, sure, we always seem to be awash in propaganda and spin from both sides of our supremely flawed political aisles. But are you trying to fully equate Trump's performance during CV19 to anyone or anything else, now, or during any other national crisis? And as a way to shed or minimize his very significant responsibilities that come part and parcel with the leadership role of POTUS?

    Leave a comment:


  • marshallnoise
    replied
    I don't understand why no one is talking about the complete setup that Flynn endured and what Trump had said about the case was verifiably accurate. The difference here is that Obama did weaponize the DOJ and no one seems to care.

    It was interesting...I listened to the radio last night and Dinesh D'Souza was on and pointed out the not so obvious. Conservatives have the Executive, the Senate and the upper courts, yet Republicans are always on their heels. The wheels of government are definitively Republican, but they do not control the narrative. The Democrats do. And he stated that was because the life long government staffers and the media are allies of the Democrats and therefore control the bullhorn.

    Which brings me to a different way of viewing the mechanics of our government system. The media and the deep state are unelected players in our system and there need to be a way to remedy that if we are going to get back to a representative form of government.

    Leave a comment:


  • roguetoaster
    replied
    Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post

    While I agree with what your saying, I am wondering if you see this happening on both sides of the isle or are you just directing this at one particular bully pulpit ?
    Sounds like a fair generality to me, presented without slant.

    Somewhat related to the above, but I think it's funny when I more regularly hear folks calling for DT to be imprisoned without a shred of irony and I am reminded of one especial target on the other end of the spectrum from a few years ago that had those same people up in arms, or at least voices. Are our memories really so short lived these days?

    Leave a comment:


  • mrsleeve
    replied
    Originally posted by phillipj View Post

    No need; obviously we've seen that political point scoring doesn't solve real life health or economic crises. However, accountability does matter, especially in positions of great power. It's very fair to say that we saw lots of propaganda in lieu of action and the country is worse off because of it.
    While I agree with what your saying, I am wondering if you see this happening on both sides of the isle or are you just directing this at one particular bully pulpit ?

    Leave a comment:


  • phillipj
    replied
    Originally posted by z31maniac View Post

    I don't know. Should we go back to February/March and pull all the videos of top democrats saying this is nothing worry about............after calling Trump racist for his Wuhan travel ban in January?

    The tireless "It's ok when my guy does it, but your guy is a horrible person when they do it"
    No need; obviously we've seen that political point scoring doesn't solve real life health or economic crises. However, accountability does matter, especially in positions of great power. It's very fair to say that we saw lots of propaganda in lieu of action and the country is worse off because of it.

    Leave a comment:

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