Let’s talk about Antifa.

[MrBurgundy]

i'm not clicking on any of hoff's posts anymore, but i'll have this discussion with you.

we're straying off the topic of anti-fascism here somewhat, but it's interesting that the speaker starts with china and india, because almost all of the hundreds of immigrants i mention working with (and at that scale we are talking about data, not anecdotes) are from those two countries. russia and the ukraine are mentionable as well- two of my best mangers were from those countries.

here's my point, though- tech companies have a shortage of talent that isn't being addressed *now*. i would sleep better if my team had 3 more people on it, but we can't find candidates with the right level of education or experience, so i'm working ridiculous hours writing code and helping troubleshoot fortune 500 companies' infrastructures while those hiring requirements sit open.

i think this is indicative of a failure in our education system- it's not producing the qualified brains we need to do the jobs that need doing, and when people get out of it, they're saddled with sometimes 6 figures worth of student debt. gee, i wonder why those millennials are all so pissed off...

I agree, this is straying away from the thread's topic, but I'm interested in discussing immigration from that perspective.

[decay]

I agree, this is straying away from the thread's topic, but I'm interested in discussing immigration from that perspective.

i can tell that you've also been keeping things civil. new thread?

[MrBurgundy]

i can tell that you've also been keeping things civil. new thread?

Yeah, I think that would be a good new topic, but honestly, I'm probably not going to be on r3v for the rest of the weekend, because it's time to party.

Monday, I'm down to talk about that. I'm genuinely curious about what people have to say.

[frankenbeemer]

they *are* another entity.

they have their own wikipedia article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc

i'm (patiently) explaining the difference to you.

If wikipedia is an acceptable source then may I presume this is accurate?

The salient feature of Antifa groups is their opposition to fascism by direct action.[5] They are known for their militant protest tactics, including property damage and physical violence.


Antifa is throwing molotov cocktails in Hamburgbut the Antifa you belong to is nonviolent?

It's a conspiracy like the E36 M3. Europe gets the real deal and the US gets the emasculated version.

[decay]

i've said "stand in defense" twice now.

being ready to address violence is different than wishing for it.

i'll go ahead and ignore being called emasculated by someone who's probably never had the balls to show up and advocate for either side.

[frankenbeemer]

Why would I advocate for either? Racism and censorship suck. You are free to pretend that Antifa is acting in self defense, I don't believe it. I'm old enough to remember the violent opposition to civil rights in the deep south and I've seen Antifa in action. Same tactics, same results.

[decay]

You are free to pretend that Antifa is acting in self defense, I don't believe it.

and as my 1st amendment rights allow, i don't care if you believe me. i'm doing what's right rather than sitting on my ass and just watching this shit happen.

you can go ahead and keep yelling about it with internet comments if that's what you think is going to accomplish something, but i don't believe that.

:)

[decay]

and... i don't know how i missed saying this, but the violent opposition of the civil-rights movement in the south was entirely justified. jim crow laws and the rest of segregation were also a form of fascism, by definition.

that was a hard fight that took decades. and it's a bad scar on american history that the only concession we first granted was "former slaves get 3/5ths of a vote", and that it took more than 100 years after that to get some form of equality legislated, if not enforced.

[frankenbeemer]

Where do you get the idea "former slaves get 3/5ths of a vote"? I've never heard that.

[chadthestampede]

Where do you get the idea "former slaves get 3/5ths of a vote"? I've never heard that.

He's probably referring to the three fifths compromise.

The debate was over whether, and if so, how, slaves would be counted when determining a state's total population for legislative representation and taxing purposes. The issue was important, as this population number would then be used to determine the number of seats that the state would have in the United States House of Representatives for the next ten years. The effect was to give the southern states a third more seats in Congress and a third more electoral votes than if slaves had been ignored, but fewer than if slaves and free persons had been counted equally, allowing the slaveholder interests to largely dominate the government of the United States until 1861.

[frankenbeemer]

He's probably referring to the three fifths compromise.

Probably, and that kind of confusion is precisely why he shouldn't have the right to practice a heckler's veto.

[decay]

Probably, and that kind of confusion is precisely why he shouldn't have the right to practice a heckler's veto.

what the fuck am i confused about? that's a thing that happened, dumbass.

[frankenbeemer]

Let's be civil. Please explain your statement "former slaves get 3/5ths of a vote".

[decay]

sorry. i was irritated by your statement that i shouldn't have a voice- which is kind of counter to the whole "free speech" argument.

chadthestampede nailed it. i was talking about the three-fifths compromise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-Fifths_Compromise

what was that, other than systemic disenfranchising of a subset of the american population? things like this are why people decide that they've had enough and it's time to use the last resort of direct action.

[frankenbeemer]

sorry. i was irritated by your statement that i shouldn't have a voice- which is kind of counter to the whole "free speech" argument.

chadthestampede nailed it. i was talking about the three-fifths compromise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-Fifths_Compromise

what was that, other than systemic disenfranchising of a subset of the american population? things like this are why people decide that they've had enough and it's time to use the last resort of direct action.

No offense taken then and no apology neccessary.

As to the 3/5ths compromise, those slaves were already disenfranchised. The compromise wasn't a statement on the value of those people, it was an attempt to reconcile the gathering momentum of abolition with the intransigence of the southern states.

The southern states wanted each slave counted in full (not because they valued their humanity) to increase southern power in Congress. The northern states didn't want them counted (not because they discounted their humanity) to accelerate the abolition of slavery.


Edited to add: those population numbers directly affected representation in Congress, thus the compromise at 3/5ths (proposed by a Pennsylvanian anti slavery politician).

I know this is a digression and you may already be aware of that history. Also: I'm not asking to silence your voice, I'm asking you not to silence others on my behalf. There is a difference.