Let’s talk about Antifa.

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  • decay
    R3V Elite
    • Oct 2003
    • 5637

    #946
    Originally posted by myinfernalbmw
    Oh no, there are plenty of things I give enough of a shit about. One of those things is sleeping peacefully on my chest at this very moment. I have no shortage of things that I care about. I don't however submit to this delusion that fascism is not only tolerated, but perpetuated by the current government (at least any more than any previous administration or to the extent that would justify terrorist acts.) What I do see is a bunch of larpers playing revolution in the streets and a local government that is too feckless to allow law enforcement to do their jobs.
    jesus, people

    i didn't say you don't give a shit about *anything*, i said you don't give a shit about *this*

    and i ended the sentence with "and that's okay" which should make clear it's not a judgmental statement

    take your criticism up with the city of portland if you're that pissed, i was just answering z31's question
    past:
    1989 325is (learner shitbox)
    1986 325e (turbo dorito)
    1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
    1985 323i baur
    current:
    1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

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    • cale
      R3VLimited
      • Oct 2005
      • 2331

      #947
      Originally posted by decay
      well, your thinking is wrong, because you made an assumption- i questioned his tactics *because they got him killed* and that should have been fairly clear if you read the entire sentence you copypasta'd part of

      it's okay. nuance isn't your thing and you're super-excited to have an effigy on r3v to set fire to. i get it



      i don't have to, because you're presenting a false premise. actions taken under this presidency are happening at a scale unprecedented by any other
      You should probably learn the difference between inference and assumption, because what I took from your post was your explicit condemnation of tactic while also acknowledging yet selectively choosing not to condemn the intent. This is no different than any other extremist who harbours sympathy for those who are willing to do the dirty work, your rationalizing his behavior says enough about where you stand, textbook apologist. You're no effigy, you're a willing combatant in this.
      Last edited by cale; 07-15-2019, 10:28 PM.

      Comment

      • decay
        R3V Elite
        • Oct 2003
        • 5637

        #948
        Originally posted by cale
        You should probably learn the difference between inference and assumption, because what I took from your post was your explicit condemnation of tactic while also acknowledging yet selectively choosing not to condemn the intent. This is no different than any other extremist who harbours sympathy for those who are willing to do the dirty work, your rationalizing his behavior says enough about where you stand, textbook apologist. You're no effigy, you're a willing combatant in this.
        you’re goddamned right i am, and there’s a reason i’m not dead or arrested yet
        past:
        1989 325is (learner shitbox)
        1986 325e (turbo dorito)
        1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
        1985 323i baur
        current:
        1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

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        • cale
          R3VLimited
          • Oct 2005
          • 2331

          #949
          And that very choice to participate is why you're scrutinized so heavily on this forum, so stop with the constant self-victimization nonsense we both know you're not entitled to.

          Don't overlook the first part of that though, why do you purposefully choose to condemn his tactic and not his intent? And if you continue not to, why are you an apologist for this sort of extreme violence? I look at this no different than right-wing extremists murdering doctors outside abortion clinics and lighting their clinics ablaze.

          Comment

          • decay
            R3V Elite
            • Oct 2003
            • 5637

            #950
            Originally posted by cale
            why do you purposefully choose to condemn his tactic and not his intent? And if you continue not to, why are you an apologist for this sort of extreme violence?
            probably because i was trained in this sort of extreme violence by a government that keeps finding new ways to employ it

            once again, we are back to the question: does the government have a monopoly on violence?

            I look at this no different than right-wing extremists murdering doctors outside abortion clinics and lighting their clinics ablaze.
            if you want to have that viewpoint, you need to show me an example of american antifa murdering anyone, or that's a false equivalency
            past:
            1989 325is (learner shitbox)
            1986 325e (turbo dorito)
            1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
            1985 323i baur
            current:
            1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

            Comment

            • z31maniac
              I waste 90% of my day here and all I got was this stupid title
              • Dec 2007
              • 17566

              #951
              Originally posted by decay
              once again, we are back to the question: does the government have a monopoly on violence?
              Legally, yes.

              Morally, that's a different question. And I know that's what you're getting at.

              I think even more relevant is, "Is this violence working?" People beating each other up in the streets isn't going to bring about any meaningful change.
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              Comment

              • decay
                R3V Elite
                • Oct 2003
                • 5637

                #952
                i've discussed escalation of force in this thread already.

                anti-fascism also involves pursuing legal options to see the changes we want to happen.

                that part doesn't usually wind up on the news, because there's no blood involved.
                past:
                1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                1985 323i baur
                current:
                1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

                Comment

                • naplesE30
                  E30 Mastermind
                  • Nov 2007
                  • 1830

                  #953
                  Originally posted by decay
                  probably because i was trained in this sort of extreme violence by a government that keeps finding new ways to employ it

                  once again, we are back to the question: does the government have a monopoly on violence?



                  if you want to have that viewpoint, you need to show me an example of american antifa murdering anyone, or that's a false equivalency
                  Not sure that govt has a monopoly on violence as you say. That’s a rather absolute statement. In fact I would venture to guess more civilians perpetrate violence on any given day than our govt entities do in a year. The govt or military/police have clear policies about when they can engage an individual or civilian, which I am sure you are well aware of. Breaching those policies will lead to prosecution in both entities, and commonly does.

                  Comment

                  • cale
                    R3VLimited
                    • Oct 2005
                    • 2331

                    #954
                    Originally posted by decay
                    probably because i was trained in this sort of extreme violence by a government that keeps finding new ways to employ it

                    once again, we are back to the question: does the government have a monopoly on violence?
                    You're not the only one who was or is in the military. Others including myself who serve can see just how pitiful his attempt to carry out an attack was. The issue here is motive and intent, not the poor execution of that motive.

                    The government has a monopoly on the enforcement of borders and law yes. There is no legal merit behind throwing molotov's at a government building. If you want to talk false equivalencies then great job providing one, that the detainment of illegal pers is equivalent to arson.

                    Originally posted by decay
                    if you want to have that viewpoint, you need to show me an example of american antifa murdering anyone, or that's a false equivalency
                    It's an act of the extreme left compared to acts from the extreme right, I don't believe any of these outliers speak for anyone but themselves with their actions.

                    Comment

                    • decay
                      R3V Elite
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 5637

                      #955
                      Originally posted by naplesE30
                      Not sure that govt has a monopoly on violence as you say. That’s a rather absolute statement. In fact I would venture to guess more civilians perpetrate violence on any given day than our govt entities do in a year. The govt or military/police have clear policies about when they can engage an individual or civilian, which I am sure you are well aware of. Breaching those policies will lead to prosecution in both entities, and commonly does.
                      Can you all kindly stop putting words in my mouth?

                      I did not say that. I asked whether everyone else thought it was true. That’s why it was phrased as a *question*, not an assertion.
                      past:
                      1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                      1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                      1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                      1985 323i baur
                      current:
                      1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

                      Comment

                      • decay
                        R3V Elite
                        • Oct 2003
                        • 5637

                        #956
                        Originally posted by cale
                        You're not the only one who was or is in the military. Others including myself who serve
                        Most unintentionally funny post ITT.

                        Sorry, but no public service in Canada rates with being combat arms in our military.

                        Thanks for the laugh, though.
                        past:
                        1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                        1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                        1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                        1985 323i baur
                        current:
                        1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

                        Comment

                        • naplesE30
                          E30 Mastermind
                          • Nov 2007
                          • 1830

                          #957
                          Do you think Decay should be allowed to continue beating his wife?

                          That wouldn't exactly be a true question either would it. Your "question" has an implied factual statement

                          Comment

                          • decay
                            R3V Elite
                            • Oct 2003
                            • 5637

                            #958
                            Originally posted by naplesE30
                            Do you think Decay should be allowed to continue beating his wife?

                            That wouldn't exactly be a true question either would it. Your "question" has an implied factual statement
                            No it doesn’t. It is intended to make anyone who reads it ask themselves more questions. z31 got it.
                            past:
                            1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                            1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                            1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                            1985 323i baur
                            current:
                            1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

                            Comment

                            • naplesE30
                              E30 Mastermind
                              • Nov 2007
                              • 1830

                              #959
                              Which is completely based on a false premise. Just as I outlined. I have a right to defend myself if one were to break into my home. That does not mean I have a right to commit violence.

                              Comment

                              • decay
                                R3V Elite
                                • Oct 2003
                                • 5637

                                #960
                                JFC. There is no premise. It’s a fucking question intended to make you think about your answer. You sound like you’re a couple steps down that path now, but I don’t understand why you’re upset that I asked it.
                                past:
                                1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                                1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                                1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                                1985 323i baur
                                current:
                                1995 M3 (suspension, 17x9/255-40, borla)

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