Democratic Primary Season 2020

[mbonder]

I simply don't care about the number, my point was that Congress seems to be more interested (and in particular these guys running for President on the left) to treat the symptom rather than treating the cause of it, which just isn't smart, doesn't matter which way you slice it.

Where is the proof that a measure such as capping interest rates at 15% will change anything? Will this actually help people? Or will the poor habits continue, if not be strengthened by the fact that the penalty isn't as bad as it was before?

[Schnitzer318is]

How does one get into $50k in debt on credit cards anyway? I have to assume medical expenses, I just can't see any other reason to spend that much on a credit card(s). In which case I'd say that's more a function of the healthcare system than the banking system.

I'd love to see Bernie and AOC introduce a bill that would fund classes in schools across the country to teach personal finance to children so that everyone can be more responsible instead of going after private industries because (a majority of) people that end up in massive debt are idiots and want to live beyond their means.

Home Economics classes would be excellent if brought back into the middle school and high school curriculums. Whole-heartedly agree. I had home-ec in middle school and learned how to balance a check book, about interest, etc. Would certainly help young people to have a grasp of the fundamentals of individual finance.

$50k is not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, but I see your point. Your assumption is correct, partially medical. Partially a misrepresented house (needed lots of repairs). Partially an unethical builder destroying our house (and every other house on our street) 2-3 times a year over a 5 year period, partially our local gov't allowing it to happen. So, there ARE ways it can happen other than being irresponsible. As you have said, if you keep your credit score up, and have some financial knowledge, there is little reason to pay interest on credit card debt. We rarely have to. We could pay off the CC in less than a year if we felt like changing our retirement plans, or in a week if we felt like refinancing the house.

^My position, which differs from the two of you obviously, is that 15% is a perfectly good ROI and that I'd be fine with the large financial institutions being limited to that. Combine the 15% with fees and I'm sure they would still do quite well on the products.

[mbonder]

Montana Governor Steve Bullock enters the race

[z31maniac]

I pay everything with credit cards except my mortgage each month, and I've been doing so since I was 20, so that's nearly 15 years. With a few exceptions where I needed more money than I had for a particular month (mainly the first few years when my income was low because I was still in school), I haven't paid interest on any credit card. While doing so I've collected cash back, airline miles, essentially been paid to use those credit cards instead of the other way around.

I don't see why this is even a discussion, why does it matter what the percentage is, 5%, 15%, 25%, if you use the card correctly to avoid interest, the number is irrelevant. How does one get into $50k in debt on credit cards anyway? I have to assume medical expenses, I just can't see any other reason to spend that much on a credit card(s). In which case I'd say that's more a function of the healthcare system than the banking system.

I'd love to see Bernie and AOC introduce a bill that would fund classes in schools across the country to teach personal finance to children so that everyone can be more responsible instead of going after private industries because (a majority of) people that end up in massive debt are idiots and want to live beyond their means.

Ding ding ding!

I have a chunk of outstanding debt due to life circumstances (divorce, layoffs, moving, moving to another city, etc) over the last few years. But I'm working on it, and it will be gone in the next 12-18 months.

But I also have enough good credit that the debt I've needed to incur, has all been transferred to 0% cards, once the term is up, I just transfer it back to a different card with 0%. Of course, I have to pay a fee for this, but it's still much cheaper than the interest I would pay.

So we can do the whole "Dave Ramsey debt is worse than the devil." But debt isn't necessarily the devil if you know how to manage/leverage it to your benefit.

[gwb72tii]

It’s not the responsibility of the government

[mbonder]

I pay everything with credit cards except my mortgage each month, and I've been doing so since I was 20, so that's nearly 15 years. With a few exceptions where I needed more money than I had for a particular month (mainly the first few years when my income was low because I was still in school), I haven't paid interest on any credit card. While doing so I've collected cash back, airline miles, essentially been paid to use those credit cards instead of the other way around.

I don't see why this is even a discussion, why does it matter what the percentage is, 5%, 15%, 25%, if you use the card correctly to avoid interest, the number is irrelevant. How does one get into $50k in debt on credit cards anyway? I have to assume medical expenses, I just can't see any other reason to spend that much on a credit card(s). In which case I'd say that's more a function of the healthcare system than the banking system.

I'd love to see Bernie and AOC introduce a bill that would fund classes in schools across the country to teach personal finance to children so that everyone can be more responsible instead of going after private industries because (a majority of) people that end up in massive debt are idiots and want to live beyond their means.

[Schnitzer318is]

So if 15% is too much? What is the appropriate % to be made giving money to people they don't have? 13%? 4%?

I bet you don't have a concrete answer with evidence to support your position, you just have the feeling that 15% is too much. Right?

Sorry, I'm little pissed off this morning (not at y'all)

It's all good, we all have good days and bad days. I was saying 15% is fine. Many CC, especially retail cards, can reach 25%. 4% on revolving credit would probably not be worth assuming the risk and associated overhead.

You're right, I have not looked up anything to back up my opinion that 15% is a good cap for CC interest. Just my experience that 15% ROI is pretty good when it comes to an investment. It would be hard to consistently beat that in the market year over year.

Edit: "Schnitz, you aren't providing any kind of retort to sleeve's claims of "don't spend more than you have."

That's because I don't disagree with that sentiment. Just pointing out it's not always possible to adhere to that policy.

[z31maniac]

Schnitz, you aren't providing any kind of retort to sleeve's claims of "don't spend more than you have."

The banks are in business to make money. Don't extend credit to those who aren't worthy? Where is that line drawn? If I had a bank, I wouldn't loan you money you didn't have. Then where would all be?

So if 15% is too much? What is the appropriate % to be made giving money to people they don't have? 13%? 4%?

I bet you don't have a concrete answer with evidence to support your position, you just have the feeling that 15% is too much. Right?

Sorry, I'm little pissed off this morning (not at y'all)

[Schnitzer318is]

With the high rates of CC defaults on 5 figure balances in recent memory why should banks be limited in the amount of interest they charge on a revolving account, where the consumer has 100% control over the amount of interest they pay on that account.

We are not talking about a predatory payday loans or iffy mortgages issued to people that were less than qualified, or other fixed payment over time types of loans, where the interest rate is designed to entrap consumers in a never ending debt cycle. While I agree usury is wrong, and that a 30% apr is such, I feel that the type of product this rate is charged on plays a role in where such a rate is applied. On a revolving account such a rate can be appropriate as the consumer can choose to NOT use the account, or to use it sparingly, or only use it for emergency's. That high rate is a as much a motivator to pay the card off or not to abuse the privilege of having access to Revolving Credit. Not like when you take a 280 dollar pay day loan with 12 fixed payments that when it matures in costs the borrower 975. 2 completely different situations

DONT SPEND MORE MONEY THAN YOU HAVE.... its a hard lesson to learn. We have not paid a dime in CC interest in well over a decade, and we run "a lot" though them every year.

So your answer is, you don't believe 15% is sufficient profit for the bank. That was what I was asking. If worried about the default on "5 figure balances," how about putting the onus on the bank? Perhaps they should not lend to an unfit borrower?

If you value your credit score, you are forced to participate in the credit card game to an extent. Especially if you are just starting out building your credit. Choice to participate is not 100% in the hands of the end user. Overspending is for sure... but along with that undisciplined spending, sometimes emergencies happen. So, like many things that get discussed in this section of the forum, lumping all CC debt into one category (end user's lack of discipline) is single-minded.

My position is that 15% is sufficient ROI. Congrats on being CC debt free. We aim to be in the next few years ourselves. But currently hold $50k in CC @ 0%. NOT by choice, I assure you. We shuffle the balances between cards at 0% (but pay the 3% transfer fee) as we keep our scores high enough to do so. I feel for those who can't. If we wanted to change our retirement plan, we could pay it off very quickly. But @ ~0%... I'm not turning away free money. Use the bank's trickeries against them.

[mrsleeve]

With the high rates of CC defaults on 5 figure balances in recent memory why should banks be limited in the amount of interest they charge on a revolving account, where the consumer has 100% control over the amount of interest they pay on that account.

We are not talking about a predatory payday loans or iffy mortgages issued to people that were less than qualified, or other fixed payment over time types of loans, where the interest rate is designed to entrap consumers in a never ending debt cycle. While I agree usury is wrong, and that a 30% apr is such, I feel that the type of product this rate is charged on plays a role in where such a rate is applied. On a revolving account such a rate can be appropriate as the consumer can choose to NOT use the account, or to use it sparingly, or only use it for emergency's. That high rate is a as much a motivator to pay the card off or not to abuse the privilege of having access to Revolving Credit. Not like when you take a 280 dollar pay day loan with 12 fixed payments that when it matures in costs the borrower 975. 2 completely different situations

DONT SPEND MORE MONEY THAN YOU HAVE.... its a hard lesson to learn. We have not paid a dime in CC interest in well over a decade, and we run "a lot" though them every year.

[Schnitzer318is]

more protect people from themselves BULLSHIT.... here is an idea, dont pay any interest and make the CC banks PAY YOU to use their products....

Dont spend more money than you have, and pay off your fucking card(s) every month like a responsible person

Stupid hurts and is a very good teacher

While I agree with personal responsibility and education when it comes to financial products (and most things)... you don't believe 15% interest is enough profit for the banks?

[mrsleeve]

Back on track to actual candidates, and not the know-nothing narcissist in chief:

Bernie and AOC introduce bill capping credit card interest rates at 15%

Intercept Article in more detail

more protect people from themselves BULLSHIT.... here is an idea, dont pay any interest and make the CC banks PAY YOU to use their products....

Dont spend more money than you have, and pay off your fucking card(s) every month like a responsible person

Stupid hurts and is a very good teacher

[phillipj]

Back on track to actual candidates, and not the know-nothing narcissist in chief:

Bernie and AOC introduce bill capping credit card interest rates at 15%

Intercept Article in more detail

[phillipj]

Also, this past page or two should be in the "Trump" thread, not here.

[phillipj]

This is amazing if not surprising.
For 8 years under the great O we never had 3% GDP, even with no inflation, a terrible track record. Many reasons for this, but it’s a fact.
Forward to the great T and the fact he’s not anti-business, has rolled back regulations, lowered business and personal taxes and now that the economy is above 3% it’s somehow not because of the policies of T? Get real.

In 2015, under Obama (but how much does it matter?), GDP growth was 2.9%. In every year of Obama's presidency we were in positive trajectory. (Again, though, how is this an accurate "scorecard", especially of a President, with everything going on in the world, so many other aspects of Government and Party politics, and given past events?). So, tell us please, "a terrible track record" of what?

Under Trump in 2017 Real GDP growth was 2.2%; in 2018 2.9%. Where will we be after 2019? 2020?

Do you know how GDP is calculated? How things are weighted? And, do you think this is a fair measure of the economy? And for who?

...

I am planning accordingly for the fallout of the shortsightedness of what is going on right now. Are you? Let's see how positive you feel about the "Great T" come Fall 2020.

And, again, the original point made was that the economy would be even better without the instability of a Trump as well as his complete ineptitude with trade, not that the Tax overhaul or cherry-picked deregulation wasn't a jolt to markets or had somewhat of an impact on GDP or jobs. Is the tax bill solely Trump's brainchild? Actually, how much of it was his at all? How about Government spending, and the exploding deficit, which is insane? How much of that is Trump's? None? Must be those crazy socialists in Congress (who want to keep us out of our crazy expensive wars!). How much is "Space Force" going to cost us? And for Why? What a complete joke.