Democratic Primary Season 2020

[mbonder]

Whoops, edited post, good catch.

[mrsleeve]

Hikenlooper was the gov. of CO. Inslee is the gov. WA. Hickenlooper didnt need the exposure in the liberal districts of CO where he will likely be running hes got a very strong name recognition and would likely be all but a sure bet

[mbonder]

Washington Governor Jay Inslee dropped out of the race today.

Also, John Hickenlooper announced that he'd be running for one of Colorado's Senate seats. I would bet that his running for president was with his eyes on the Senate seat all along.

[R3Z3N]

Anyone voting to get "free" services from the government deserves the socialism they get.

[turge]

So my take on the 2020 Democratic race... it's the battle of who can offer the most "free" (taxpayer funded) benefits. Also the hypocrisy is amazing from the Democrats (see video). This is why I don't think they'll win 2020. Change my mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt_tSdybaXI

[mbonder]

John Hickenlooper officially dropped out of the race yesterday, hopefully more of them will leave the race as we get closer to the next debate.

[mbonder]

Congressional salaries and campaign finance are two different topics, but I'll say a little about both.

Congressional Salaries:

Here's a neat idea, how about members of Congress, in an effort to have solidarity with the people that they represent, make the median income for the district that they represent. So if you represent a district such as say New York's 15th district then you make a whopping $29,234. If you represent California's 18th district than you make a healthy $125,790. This way, you actually know what it's like to be an average salary earner in the district you represent. It also gives you a tremendous incentive to fix the problems of your district so that your salary increases. Along this line of thinking, Congressional salaries should automatically go up or down at the start of each fiscal year based on the average salary calculated for the previous year (blah blah I know there are different methods of calculating this...). That way, Congress never has to vote on whether they get a raise or not, which inevitably they always do, takes the bias out of it and forces people to actually put some effort into it.

Don't like that one, alright, I'll argue in the opposite direction:

Congressional salaries should actually be higher because the people at work there are responsible for the well-being of 320+ million people, so the reality is that the decisions they make affect many people, and as great capitalists know, decision-making is best done with a fat wallet. In reality, many of the decisions that are made affect not just the US, but the world, so these guys should be compensated like the CEOs of multinational corporations, because god damn, the idea to create biracial emojis in the latest iPhone was so genius that these people are worth $100 million a year in compensation.

On to Campaign Finance:

The only way to create equality across the campaign spectrum is to have publicly funded political campaigns, something that simultaneously everyone wants but doesn't want. People want it this way for the equality that it would create. People who have great ideas but no SuperPAC money would instantly be able to have their voice heard across the entire country, allowing for a much greater diversity of opinions and leveling the playing field so that the winner would actually be chosen based on their merits not on the number of TV ads they air or the number of times they visit Iowa to kiss babies.

People don't want this, however, because of the reality that this would mean higher taxes and my money, in an indirect way, going to finance a campaign for someone that I clearly don't agree with. The amount of money that is in campaigning over the last two decades is completely staggering in it's totality, with billions being spent for singular presidential campaigns (who knows what the total will be with the elongated primary contest for the 2020 election...), dumping the cost for these campaigns on the tax payer is simply a nonstarter for most, even if it initially sounds like a great idea because of the whole equality thing.

Lastly, which I think everyone can agree with, Money = Power. There is no simpler way to say it, and right now, after the Citizens United Decision, the people with all the money have been given an almost unopposed ability to spend their money to gain political influence, because giant corporations have been empowered with the same voice as a single person. I don't agree with it, but right now, that's the landscape we live in as far as political campaigns go.

[z31maniac]

I agree with this as well. But the people in charge love the money.

Remember AOC saying congress members don't make enough money? They need to make more? Someone making $174k a year, saying they need more.

I don't know how we can fix this.

[Schnitzer318is]

But I'm not sure how we fix it?

One way "You're a racist, trump supporter" the other way "you're a stupid socialist that want's to destroy our country."

Removing the money from the campaign/election process might help silence some of the megaphones that support keeping those extremes.

Oh, and Sleeve. I mentioned Citizen's United specifically as, from my understanding, it allows all parties/corporations (left and right) to exercise their financial muscle on the political process. I certainly want the left's financial benefactors limited in the same way as the right's. I don't see CU as a right-wing caused problem. I just see it as a problem.

[z31maniac]

My stance against Trump actually isn't about a lot of what many "libtards" would rally behind.

I don't particularly care about immigration one way or the other. I don't really see illegal immigration as nearly as big of an issue as people make it out to be, in the sense that illegal immigrants are ruining America (there are other arguments for and against, not getting into it here) I don't like that people from other countries are dying, literally, in an effort to come here, but I also see that the current border control system is taxed beyond capacity and that the rule of law isn't being followed in many cases by the people that are attempting to come here over the southern border. So my stance on immigration is that there is clearly a problem, but neither side of the political spectrum is actually solving it in an effective fashion, they merely demonize the other for being either weak, or inhumane, which I reject both characterizations.

As far as healthcare goes, I'm not about eliminating private insurance, I believe that people should have the option to purchase their own healthcare if they have the means to do so. I'm also not about people simply not having healthcare. It's similar to driving a vehicle, if you wish to do so you must have a license and you must have insurance, to protect yourself just as much as to protect other drivers. I don't like the idea of people being able to receive medical care and just stick the bill on everyone else because they didn't want to pay for insurance. I believe there should be a private and a public option, and that all people should hold insurance of some kind to protect everyone from any measure of medical conditions as well as protect them from everyone else's medical conditions.

I'm not really for publicly funded free colleges. I believe that students should have a financial stake in their education and should have to pay for a portion of it so that they understand what it takes to get educated and then create financial independence over time. I'm also not interested in debt forgiveness programs for people that don't make "X" amount of money when they get out of school. This just incentivizes choosing poor career paths because you know the government will subsidize your poor choice. On a personal level, I had to pay for a portion of my undergraduate and all of my graduate education and I believe that having to do so has made me smarter financially and I'm better for having done so.

I mainly don't like Trump for a couple of reasons:

The tax cuts-I actually thought bringing down the corporate tax rate was a smart move, so I will give him that, however, reducing the tax rate on everyone, in particular the wealthiest of people just doesn't jive with my belief in financial responsibility. Like it or not, Trump had a large national debt when he started and he's only made it worse. I'd really like to see this trend reversed, however, it will require a president that is willing to tell the country that it can't have all the little shiny things in the store all the time. Trump doesn't seem to be that President because as he seems to always say "This is the best it's ever been," or "We're doing great" when the reality of the debt is far from either.

Defense Spending-Our military spending budget is quickly reaching $1 Trillion a year, to which I have to say, WTF?! Trump complained about NATO members not footing their share of the defense bill and then he turned around and raised military spending like 40%, signaling to those very NATO countries that they can continue to not contribute to the required level because America's got it. I'd like to see this scaled back in an effort to reduce the yearly deficit so we can reduce the overall national debt.

Intangibles-Last is something that I can't quite quantify, so it'll be the most difficult to explain with any given number value, but I just don't think Trump projects a presidential demeanor to the rest of the world. I don't believe him to be particularly intelligent, he says things regularly that leave people laughing or scratching their heads, and he generally has operated in a fashion that I believe tarnishes America's image to the rest of the world.

I know that isn't something that can be quantified readily, but when you compare Trump to other near term past presidents they all appear to be much more presidential (which I never thought I'd say about Bush II, but here we are, not but a decade later). I'll give you Reagan had his gaffes, Clinton his BJs/cigars, Bush II held a book upside down when reading to 1st graders, Obama called Kenye a jackass, but those all seem to pale in comparison to Trump's daily tweets and ridiculous press conferences/interviews.

So yeah, I'm not a Trump supporter, but I definitely don't know who I'm going to support from the Dem side just yet.

I agree with basically everything you have said.

And I suspect most Americans do as well. It's the loud extremes that are driving politics these days.

But I'm not sure how we fix it?

One way "You're a racist, trump supporter" the other way "you're a stupid socialist that want's to destroy our country."

[Melon]

mbonder;

Excellent post, I agree with a lot of your points.

[Schnitzer318is]

^ I agree with pretty much all of that.

[mbonder]

My stance against Trump actually isn't about a lot of what many "libtards" would rally behind.

I don't particularly care about immigration one way or the other. I don't really see illegal immigration as nearly as big of an issue as people make it out to be, in the sense that illegal immigrants are ruining America (there are other arguments for and against, not getting into it here) I don't like that people from other countries are dying, literally, in an effort to come here, but I also see that the current border control system is taxed beyond capacity and that the rule of law isn't being followed in many cases by the people that are attempting to come here over the southern border. So my stance on immigration is that there is clearly a problem, but neither side of the political spectrum is actually solving it in an effective fashion, they merely demonize the other for being either weak, or inhumane, which I reject both characterizations.

As far as healthcare goes, I'm not about eliminating private insurance, I believe that people should have the option to purchase their own healthcare if they have the means to do so. I'm also not about people simply not having healthcare. It's similar to driving a vehicle, if you wish to do so you must have a license and you must have insurance, to protect yourself just as much as to protect other drivers. I don't like the idea of people being able to receive medical care and just stick the bill on everyone else because they didn't want to pay for insurance. I believe there should be a private and a public option, and that all people should hold insurance of some kind to protect everyone from any measure of medical conditions as well as protect them from everyone else's medical conditions.

I'm not really for publicly funded free colleges. I believe that students should have a financial stake in their education and should have to pay for a portion of it so that they understand what it takes to get educated and then create financial independence over time. I'm also not interested in debt forgiveness programs for people that don't make "X" amount of money when they get out of school. This just incentivizes choosing poor career paths because you know the government will subsidize your poor choice. On a personal level, I had to pay for a portion of my undergraduate and all of my graduate education and I believe that having to do so has made me smarter financially and I'm better for having done so.

I mainly don't like Trump for a couple of reasons:

The tax cuts-I actually thought bringing down the corporate tax rate was a smart move, so I will give him that, however, reducing the tax rate on everyone, in particular the wealthiest of people just doesn't jive with my belief in financial responsibility. Like it or not, Trump had a large national debt when he started and he's only made it worse. I'd really like to see this trend reversed, however, it will require a president that is willing to tell the country that it can't have all the little shiny things in the store all the time. Trump doesn't seem to be that President because as he seems to always say "This is the best it's ever been," or "We're doing great" when the reality of the debt is far from either.

Defense Spending-Our military spending budget is quickly reaching $1 Trillion a year, to which I have to say, WTF?! Trump complained about NATO members not footing their share of the defense bill and then he turned around and raised military spending like 40%, signaling to those very NATO countries that they can continue to not contribute to the required level because America's got it. I'd like to see this scaled back in an effort to reduce the yearly deficit so we can reduce the overall national debt.

Intangibles-Last is something that I can't quite quantify, so it'll be the most difficult to explain with any given number value, but I just don't think Trump projects a presidential demeanor to the rest of the world. I don't believe him to be particularly intelligent, he says things regularly that leave people laughing or scratching their heads, and he generally has operated in a fashion that I believe tarnishes America's image to the rest of the world.

I know that isn't something that can be quantified readily, but when you compare Trump to other near term past presidents they all appear to be much more presidential (which I never thought I'd say about Bush II, but here we are, not but a decade later). I'll give you Reagan had his gaffes, Clinton his BJs/cigars, Bush II held a book upside down when reading to 1st graders, Obama called Kenye a jackass, but those all seem to pale in comparison to Trump's daily tweets and ridiculous press conferences/interviews.

So yeah, I'm not a Trump supporter, but I definitely don't know who I'm going to support from the Dem side just yet.

[Schnitzer318is]

Do you hate what your 401k has been doing the last few?

Are you giving Trump the credit for the above?

Oh, nm, Devil's advocate... gotcha.

[gwb72tii]

Excellent idea gwb!

I'll take the first bet as I simply don't want another four years of Trump (Right now I don't know who the alternative is, but this bet is on principle)

I'll also take the second bet as I think the Dems can hold as long as the first bet goes in my favor.

I'll pass on the third, I don't believe, even with a switch in POTUS, that the Senate will swing Dem. The current political animus is going to continue and the next POTUS will be just as hamstrung as Trump is currently, sigh.

There's my $20 wager, it's a long road, should be interesting to watch, popcorn in hand.

Done!