Save the Wheels Photographers

[Bglad]

This thread smells like R Kelly's sheets




PISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[e30saam]

Believe it not, but we pitched that idea to memoryfab ;) We're trying to get Brada Wheels in ATL to do the same.

Dude, I bet Zane would totally do that. Good idea!

[spike68]

Brada is one of our biggest supporters. We're connecting with Zane much more than any of the other wheel companies that we've talked to. We love hanging with the gang they have.

[e30saam]

Save the Wheels Photographers

Brada is one of our biggest supporters. We're connecting with Zane much more than any of the other wheel companies that we've talked to. We love hanging with the gang they have.

Yup. He's a good dude!

[blasphemy101]

...Even if you tried to fix it, the heat from welding the crack back up may alter the properties of the metal causing to be even more unsafe...welded back up without altering the metal to an unsafe condition...

So cast wheels can't be welded? Not arguing with you; I really don't know.

...At least with higher quality wheels, which in some cases are 3 piece, you have a high chance of just replacing just the lips or barrels...

Which, in turn has even greater negative side effects than replacing a cheaper wheel. Down-time is likely to be greater (unless you overnight parts from Japan), and I imagine a lip or barrel for Work/BBS/etc. 3-piece wheel costs more than an entire cast wheel like the TRM C1 that LFG showed.

I'm largely speaking in defense of inexpensive, easily replaceable, but quality wheels a la TRM C1s. I agree that cast replica wheels based on designs intended for FORGED wheels can be unsafe without extensive testing. IIRC, that was the case with the Rota sub-zeroes real-wheel guys are so fond of posting pictures of. On the other hand the Volk TE37's design is substantial enough that some cast replicas (Rota Grids) have been proven to be safe enough for motorsports use.

[spike68]

So cast wheels can't be welded? Not arguing with you; I really don't know.

Only gravity casting and in some cases low pressure casting.

The reason why replica companies use gravity casting is because it takes less cost, which results in the low price for consumers. Im sure you know that. Since the metal in a gravity cast isnt as dense, it cannot withstand high heat treatment unlike a high pressure or forged wheel. Even powder coating low cost wheels can slightly alter its properties causing it to be more "weak" than it already is. Welding a crack falls under this. Welding a gravity cast wheel can be a solution, but you create a larger weak point in the wheel to crack at again because of the heat given off from the weld.

Which, in turn has even greater negative side effects than replacing a cheaper wheel. Down-time is likely to be greater (unless you overnight parts from Japan), and I imagine a lip or barrel for Work/BBS/etc. 3-piece wheel costs more than an entire cast wheel like the TRM C1 that LFG showed.

I'm largely speaking in defense of inexpensive, easily replaceable, but quality wheels a la TRM C1s. I agree that cast replica wheels based on designs intended for FORGED wheels can be unsafe without extensive testing. IIRC, that was the case with the Rota sub-zeroes real-wheel guys are so fond of posting pictures of. On the other hand the Volk TE37's design is substantial enough that some cast replicas (Rota Grids) have been proven to be safe enough for motorsports use.

You make a good point, but I would honestly still rather go with the higher quality wheels. Thats just where I stand. Knowing that a forged or pressure cast wheel and widthstand greater forces is price I would be willing to pay. and even if I couldnt afford that, there are plenty of OEM wheels that look damn good and are of higher quality and the same cost if not cheaper than replicas.

[Andy.B]

Since this thread has become an argument over different types of wheels, here is an interesting article from a recent grassroots motorsports issue discussing wheel tech:

Wheels of Fortune

[blasphemy101]

Only gravity casting and in some cases low pressure casting.

The reason why replica companies use gravity casting is because it takes less cost, which results in the low price for consumers. Im sure you know that. Since the metal in a gravity cast isnt as dense, it cannot withstand high heat treatment unlike a high pressure or forged wheel.

Interesting. Good info. I had heard about the heat from powdercoating possibly causing damage. For some reason, I didn't make the connection.

You make a good point, but I would honestly still rather go with the higher quality wheels. Thats just where I stand. Knowing that a forged or pressure cast wheel and widthstand greater forces is price I would be willing to pay. and even if I couldnt afford that, there are plenty of OEM wheels that look damn good and are of higher quality and the same cost if not cheaper than replicas.

You have made excellent points as well. I'm running TRM wheels on my E30 because they are affordable, expendable, and offer the size I want (15x8). However, they aren't a replica wheel, just an inexpensive one. I'm running custom bored OEM wheels on my s2000 for similar reasons.

I can understand the desire for high-quality wheels, but I think they are unjustified in many of their applications.

I think we both agree that unsafe, untested replica designs using inferior materials shouldn't be on the market.

[spike68]

I can understand the desire for high-quality wheels, but I think they are unjustified in many of their applications.

I think we both agree that unsafe, untested replica designs using inferior materials shouldn't be on the market.

This is where I cant blame you. People have their reasons. But if anything, it would be better to see people use simply a more inexpensive wheels that is not a replica. I reason why I say that is because we believe design integrity is important. It's something that XXR or rota dont have at all. If you created something so great and so iconic someone decided to rip it off and sell it for cheap? Its pretty much disrespectful. People should at least be aware of that sense.

[agent]

If you created something so great and so iconic someone decided to rip it off and sell it for cheap? Its pretty much disrespectful.

So, is every part on your car Genuine BMW?

[spike68]

Besides various aftermarket parts, yes.

[lambo]

So, is every part on your car Genuine BMW?

That's irrelevant. Quality parts are not exclusive to OEM.

[blasphemy101]

If you created something so great and so iconic someone decided to rip it off and sell it for cheap? Its pretty much disrespectful. People should at least be aware of that sense.

I agree with you to an extent, but how far does this logic reach? Who created the first basketweave-style wheel? BBS, Work, and a number of other manufacturers are ripping them off. Many of the designs that are replicated have reached a classic status where copies and references to their design are inevitable.

I would happily buy a wheel from its original designer vs. a replica if price wasn't an issue. Unfortunately it is. There is no reason Volk can't manufacture a cast version of the TE37 and price it similarly to Rota's Grid wheel. They choose not to because they have decided they will be more profitable in the niche they have carved in the high-end wheel market.

I play guitar, so I can draw an analogy to guitar maker Gibson. They make a high-end, iconic guitar called the Les Paul. The standard version sells for ~$3,000, and copies of it's design and reach below the $150 mark (sound familiar?).

The Les Paul shape has been copied HUNDREDS of times and applied to inferior products. In the 80s, a couple of Japanese companies produced copies that were said to be BETTER than the guitars produced by Gibson. Gibson sued those companies.

Companies have continued to copy the Les Paul design (though generally with lower-quality examples), and Gibson has left them alone. They know those who want a GIBSON Les Paul will save and shell out the money. They would exhaust themselves and gain tons of negative PR for suing other established manufacturers for producing 'affordable' copies of their 'overpriced' guitars.

[blasphemy101]

That's irrelevant. Quality parts are not exclusive to OEM.

That's not irrelevant at all...I'd say using a non-OEM licensed part like a swaybar strays from this discussion by inches, not degrees. The conversation is about replicas/copies of a design vs. the original design, not necessarily quality.

[dannyyisntt]

This whole argument is bullshit.

Guys aren't into real stuff? That's cool. I'll keep enjoying authentic wheels.