Tires for track wheels- (14s?)

[kishg]

Still torn on whether to build the car for SpecE30, since I am a total rookie, but I would love to jump straight to 15s, right off of the bat.

well, you got to make your own decisions, but i'll just make some suggestions borne from experience. i initially bought my car to dd in the winter and for summer track duty. however, the bug bit hard and before i knew it, the car had GC kit, poly bushings everywhere, THR eyeballs, 4.10 diff, chip, bigger injectors, etc etc. and was pretty much unusable as a DD. while the car was dead nuts reliable and went through about 20 + track days/season the last couple of years, i now wished i'd just built it as spec e30 from the get go. would have saved some $$ and got more seat time in that configuration. if i were to do it all over again, that's what i'd do.

[whiltebeitel]

well, you got to make your own decisions, but i'll just make some suggestions borne from experience. i initially bought my car to dd in the winter and for summer track duty. however, the bug bit hard and before i knew it, the car had GC kit, poly bushings everywhere, THR eyeballs, 4.10 diff, chip, bigger injectors, etc etc. and was pretty much unusable as a DD. while the car was dead nuts reliable and went through about 20 + track days/season the last couple of years, i now wished i'd just built it as spec e30 from the get go. would have saved some $$ and got more seat time in that configuration. if i were to do it all over again, that's what i'd do.

That's what I'm trying to do at the moment. It's saved me from impulse-buying and modding the hell out of the car.

It's really up to you. You could always sell the car as a spec e30 car if you get sick of tracking the car, or you could build it for any other racing class. Otherwise, it's just a track car that only fits the DE's.

[dinanm3atl]

I've tracked and autocrossed falken azenis rt-215 in 195 on 14's as well as 205 on 15's. 195 got too hot and greasy quickly, and the 205s performed well on the track. auto-x they were fine either size and pretty fast

I've also ran 205 es100s on 15s and they put up well with tracking and auto-x, although not fast. I have a set of 205-60-14s now, but have not tracked them yet. They go alright at auto-x and street, albeit not as sticky. Skafrog was a big fan of them, and they're a good size on 14s

Must be a weight thing. 245.40.17 RT615 and ES100 turn into a greasey tire after a couple of laps on Road Atlanta in an E36 M3. The ES100 is a mid grade 'performance' tire at best. I would not recommend them as a track tire in any climate that sees heat during the summer.

Auto-X and a lap or 2 they won't really complain about abuse but extended use on a track they just cannot handle the heat and abuse. This is assuming you are really cooking it and asking max performance from the tire.

Is Hankook still mkaing the RS2 in the 195.60.14? That is a decent trackable tire you could drive to and from. Takes more abuse than the RT615 and in my experience has more overall grip as well. That might be another option for you if you want to stick with 14s.

[Wh33lhop]

From what I remember the ES100 was a mediocre tire even in its heyday, which was some years ago. Personally I wouldn't run them unless I was looking for a street tire that I didn't have to replace regularly.

[dinanm3atl]

From what I remember the ES100 was a mediocre tire even in its heyday, which was some years ago. Personally I wouldn't run them unless I was looking for a street tire that I didn't have to replace regularly.

That is what I was saying. Midrange performance tire. I think if I remember they are a 300 or 330 Treadwear and A/A for temp and traction. They are also years upon years old.

For just driving around and an auto-x here and there they should do fine.

[nando]

god I hated ES100s

OP, I'd keep the 14s and get the RT615s. No, they're not the top of the line tire - but you're only learning anyway.

When you get a bit further on, get some 225/50-14 hoosiers for autox. Sticky as hell and super light. You could do a set of 15s and track tires later for that purpose.

[phenryiv1]

Is Hankook still mkaing the RS2 in the 195.60.14? That is a decent trackable tire you could drive to and from. Takes more abuse than the RT615 and in my experience has more overall grip as well. That might be another option for you if you want to stick with 14s.

No, 205/50/15 is as small as they go.

[Jean]

god I hated ES100s

OP, I'd keep the 14s and get the RT615s. No, they're not the top of the line tire - but you're only learning anyway.

When you get a bit further on, get some 225/50-14 hoosiers for autox. Sticky as hell and super light. You could do a set of 15s and track tires later for that purpose.

+1 . Can't beat a dedicated set of wheels/tires for your track toy.

[rwh11385]

Ha, knew Nando was going to say he hates ES100s. They are not the stickiest, but you can know they will at least last on the track on an E30. You might not be able to say that for certain with falken azenis.

[dinanm3atl]

Ha, knew Nando was going to say he hates ES100s. They are not the stickiest, but you can know they will at least last on the track on an E30. You might not be able to say that for certain with falken azenis.

Definitely going to last longer. It has almost twice the treadwear and is easily twice as hard in terms of tread compound. It really is not a fair comparison. The ES100 is a basic street performance tire and it barely does that well. The RT615 is not going to last nearly as long, on the street or the track. The tread compound is extremely soft.

That is the trade off. Get a stickier tire means the tread compound is softer and thus it will not last as long. RS2, S03, PS2 etc are all going to wear much faster than an ES100, KDW2, 912 etc. Many 2x or 3x faster.

If you are really pushing it on track and are still on 'street' tires you are going to eat them up even faster in the quest for speed. Depending on the tire you are using this means they will get greasy/loose even earlier in your session which just means they are going to wear even faster.

As said it is a trade off. Do you want a higher limit and more grip? If you do that means you will need new tires more often. THe result is more speed, more lateral grip and as a result you can ride it closer to the limit and try to extract the best times out of your car.

On a side note I have to agree with others. While my M3 was a full interior car I was forced to use a set of square setup ES100s on 17x8.5" contours because of a tire fiasco the week before a track event at Road Atlanta. They were terrible. The limit was very low, they would get greasy a couple laps in of pushing the car hard and they really didn't have a lot of grip. Was still fun because it wanted to slide around and trail braking and other track fun was a little more hairy :up:

[rwh11385]

I ran ES100 inbetween the same sized (205) Azenis and yes, they were slower, but not horribly so. Still had a great weekend and learned, and stayed up with / passed some quick cars. I can still, even with ES100s, get nearly FTD at Auto-X without having to chase down the fastest possible compound. If he wanted the fastest possible tire, he could go hoosier but a) not ready for r comps on track and b) wants to get to the track safely on the street

No shit stickier tires will be replaced more often, Captain Homo Obvious. I was talking about how many laps before they are useless in a session.

There's nothing like lap 3 and your tires are greasy as heck which is what happened with 195/60-14 Azenis RT-215. Supposedly the 615 manage heat better but I didn't want to test it out myself. I knew for a fact 205 ES100s put up with my car at the track.

[nando]

Ha, knew Nando was going to say he hates ES100s. They are not the stickiest, but you can know they will at least last on the track on an E30. You might not be able to say that for certain with falken azenis.

It's not that they aren't the stickiest, they were just not good in any way. I've had all seasons that performed better than ES100s in all conditions, even when they were worn. The ES100s were just terrible after the first 5000 miles, the only tires I've experienced that I like less are the 800tw Goodyear all seasons on my wife's sentra. ;)

the only reason anyone ever liked them was they came in E30 sizes and they were cheap

don't they offer falken 912s in 14" sizes? I would go for those before ES100s, especially since they've been out of production for a couple years and have likely shelf hardened.

[nando]

Definitely going to last longer. It has almost twice the treadwear and is easily twice as hard in terms of tread compound. It really is not a fair comparison. The ES100 is a basic street performance tire and it barely does that well. The RT615 is not going to last nearly as long, on the street or the track. The tread compound is extremely soft.

That is the trade off. Get a stickier tire means the tread compound is softer and thus it will not last as long. RS2, S03, PS2 etc are all going to wear much faster than an ES100, KDW2, 912 etc. Many 2x or 3x faster.

If you are really pushing it on track and are still on 'street' tires you are going to eat them up even faster in the quest for speed. Depending on the tire you are using this means they will get greasy/loose even earlier in your session which just means they are going to wear even faster.

As said it is a trade off. Do you want a higher limit and more grip? If you do that means you will need new tires more often. THe result is more speed, more lateral grip and as a result you can ride it closer to the limit and try to extract the best times out of your car.

On a side note I have to agree with others. While my M3 was a full interior car I was forced to use a set of square setup ES100s on 17x8.5" contours because of a tire fiasco the week before a track event at Road Atlanta. They were terrible. The limit was very low, they would get greasy a couple laps in of pushing the car hard and they really didn't have a lot of grip. Was still fun because it wanted to slide around and trail braking and other track fun was a little more hairy :up:

I don't think that's the point, there are lots of tires that will last longer than ES100s and still stick much better. KDW2 is one of them. The ES100s didn't even last long for me, 10k and they were done. Plus within soft compound tires you usually can choose between ones that operate at different temps, it's not like you'd show up to an HPDE on hooseir A6s. they'd melt. :p

I just don't see why you'd want to go with a tire that was mediocre 6 years ago, which has also been sitting in a warehouse for 2 years.

[nando]

I ran ES100 inbetween the same sized (205) Azenis and yes, they were slower, but not horribly so. Still had a great weekend and learned, and stayed up with / passed some quick cars. I can still, even with ES100s, get nearly FTD at Auto-X without having to chase down the fastest possible compound. If he wanted the fastest possible tire, he could go hoosier but a) not ready for r comps on track and b) wants to get to the track safely on the street

No shit stickier tires will be replaced more often, Captain Homo Obvious. I was talking about how many laps before they are useless in a session.

There's nothing like lap 3 and your tires are greasy as heck which is what happened with 195/60-14 Azenis RT-215. Supposedly the 615 manage heat better but I didn't want to test it out myself. I knew for a fact 205 ES100s put up with my car at the track.

I autoxed almost every weekend for 5 years and I never saw anyone competitive using ES100s. Actually, I only saw one other guy besides me use them at all, and he was slow (as was I).