Alternative to HP+ ?

[blefevre]

I know there are a million pad threads but most are old and I know people like to try new/different pads.

I killed my ULT's at the open lap day yesterday. I need to pads and am getting new blank rotors too. I am looking for a street/track pad, yep. I would rather spend the money on track days then two sets of brakes for street and track. I am really new and learning so I don't care about best lap times, more on improving my line and technique. The lapping sessions are in 30 minute groups of slow/fast so I have 30 minutes track, 30 minutes parking. The ULT's started to fade on the final laps of each session so that gives an idea of the track and my driving style.

People have had good luck with HP+ around here with street and our track. However, I hate brake noise. Is there an alternative that will work for street/track that won't make as much noise? I don't really care about dust, I can handle that. If there is no alternative I will just get HP+ and deal with the noise.

Thoughts?

[balooshinakus]

Don't you think it will be more expensive to blow through street pads then to get a set of street pads and a set of track pads? I do personally, which is why I got track pads for the track.

I know this doesn't answer your question, but I thought I'd throw it in anyways.

[blefevre]

I'm not sure if the life span of HP+ vs HT-10 or similar is big enough to say it will save money as a beginner. If I knew the actual wear times of the pads we could figure it out.

[Bimmerman325i]

Ben's HP+ lasted two years of DD, three HPDEs, and a full open track day, and I think still have life....not an issue IMO.

[nrubenstein]

*sigh* The HP+ is dangerous to track. Don't. Why people keep insisting that they are trackable is beyond me.

If you're killing pads on track, you need real track pads, not higher torque street pads (that don't have better heat resistance and have a very dramatic drop off in brake torque when overheated).

You're better off daily driving on track pads than tracking on street pads. I'd just run PFC06es if you can't bring yourself to change them.

[Bimmerman325i]

*sigh* The HP+ is dangerous to track. Don't. Why people keep insisting that they are trackable is beyond me.

If you're killing pads on track, you need real track pads, not higher torque street pads (that don't have better heat resistance and have a very dramatic drop off in brake torque when overheated).

You're better off daily driving on track pads than tracking on street pads. I'd just run PFC06es if you can't bring yourself to change them.

Well....I've tracked the HP+ without issue, Bishop's tracked them many many times, Sam has.... if you're killing the HP+ you're doing it wrong at our collective skill level.

I'll agree, track pads are better, and I ran HT10s yesterday, but HP+ are a good compromise for a DD car that isn't tracked to within an inch of its life.

[Wh33lhop]

How are HT10s on the street? And I'm also curious--are they more resistant to pad transfer than street pads, as in, can you stop on them when they're relatively hot without getting wobbly brakes?

[Bimmerman325i]

How are HT10s on the street? And I'm also curious--are they more resistant to pad transfer than street pads, as in, can you stop on them when they're relatively hot without getting wobbly brakes?

They don't work. At all. I'm switching back to the HP+ tonight for street use because of that. They're scarily bad for street use, unless you drive like a hoon. They're great pads on track or with heat, but heating them up enough to work on the street is dangerous.

I had no issues with wobbly brakes.

[balooshinakus]

I am extremely careful when I drive to the track on HT10's, they do not perform very well when they are cold, and I believe they will wear out a lot faster if you use them cold.

[Bishop]

Ben's HP+ lasted two years of DD, three HPDEs, and a full open track day, and I think still have life....not an issue IMO.

Woah woah woah woah... I haven't even owned my e30 for 2 years I don't think lol. Let's slow down here... Straight from the horses mouth, my HP+ did MAYBE 1.5 years of DD use, roughly 5-10 autocross DAYS (not runs, 3-8 runs a day). As for track, they did 6 30 minute sessions yesterday (3 hours). 2 BMW club school days, 4 sessions a day, don't remember if they were 20 or 30 minute sessions, and 1 adv. PDX with the local SCCA chapter, again, 4 sessions, don't remember if they are 20 or 30 minute sessions. During the BMW school I was cooking brakes, yesterday I was on a new wheel and tire setup and changed my driving slightly to use less pad, but I'm swapping back to street pads tonight and I'll get to see what the FINAL result of my HP+ were, but I'm pretty sure they're finally DEAD.

*sigh* The HP+ is dangerous to track. Don't. Why people keep insisting that they are trackable is beyond me.

If you're killing pads on track, you need real track pads, not higher torque street pads (that don't have better heat resistance and have a very dramatic drop off in brake torque when overheated).

You're better off daily driving on track pads than tracking on street pads. I'd just run PFC06es if you can't bring yourself to change them.

At blefevre's level I'd say HP+ for HIS SPECIFIC situation would be ok. He was out there with me yesterday and it was his first track experience, period. He's tame but learning. If I remember he was stressing the point of not wanting to buy a separate set of pads and rotors, so I suggested HP+ as kind of the bandaid to his bullet-wound of a decision....

Now that I'm more experienced on track, I've been really unhappy with the pads. Going to run OEM for the street, and I'll be ordering a new set of rotors front and rear, and a set of PFC06s front a rear to swap for track.

How are HT10s on the street? And I'm also curious--are they more resistant to pad transfer than street pads, as in, can you stop on them when they're relatively hot without getting wobbly brakes?

If I remember right, David (bimmerman) was saying they're kind of scary cause they don't grip at all when cold (read: street use).

[nando]

it takes like 5 minutes per wheel to change pads...

[Bimmerman325i]

Woah woah woah woah... I haven't even owned my e30 for 2 years I don't think lol. Let's slow down here... Straight from the horses mouth, my HP+ did MAYBE 1.5 years of DD use, roughly 5-10 autocross DAYS (not runs, 3-8 runs a day). As for track, they did 6 30 minute sessions yesterday (3 hours). 2 BMW club school days, 4 sessions a day, don't remember if they were 20 or 30 minute sessions, and 1 adv. PDX with the local SCCA chapter, again, 4 sessions, don't remember if they are 20 or 30 minute sessions. During the BMW school I was cooking brakes, yesterday I was on a new wheel and tire setup and changed my driving slightly to use less pad, but I'm swapping back to street pads tonight and I'll get to see what the FINAL result of my HP+ were, but I'm pretty sure they're finally DEAD.

Hm, I forgot when you bought the car. Still, 1.5yr is pretty good. My point is that the pad life is pretty good.

At blefevre's level I'd say HP+ for HIS SPECIFIC situation would be ok. He was out there with me yesterday and it was his first track experience, period. He's tame but learning. If I remember he was stressing the point of not wanting to buy a separate set of pads and rotors, so I suggested HP+ as kind of the bandaid to his bullet-wound of a decision....

Now that I'm more experienced on track, I've been really unhappy with the pads. Going to run OEM for the street, and I'll be ordering a new set of rotors front and rear, and a set of PFC06s front a rear to swap for track.

If I remember right, David (bimmerman) was saying they're kind of scary cause they don't grip at all when cold (read: street use).

I agree with all that. I ran HP+ initially when learning, then went with HT10s. They're a great starter pad if nothing else. I wouldn't DD on track pads unless I had to. I DDd on Pagid Oranges which are kind of a streetable track pad, and even they didn't work until they were warm. The HT10s (PFCs I'm sure are similar) just don't work when cold.

FWIW, the Pagids are almost gone after a year of DD and NO track and ONE autocross. Track pads on street essentially disintegrate.

[Bimmerman325i]

it takes like 5 minutes per wheel to change pads...

More like 15min per wheel to jack the car up, take the wheel off, change pad, put wheel back on, lower car, torque, go to next side. Then the time required to properly bed the pad in and also to wear the rotor into the pad. It's the optimal way to do it, it's just a lot more time intensive than practical sometimes.

[nrubenstein]

Well....I've tracked the HP+ without issue, Bishop's tracked them many many times, Sam has.... if you're killing the HP+ you're doing it wrong at our collective skill level.

I'll agree, track pads are better, and I ran HT10s yesterday, but HP+ are a good compromise for a DD car that isn't tracked to within an inch of its life.

The issue is that the HP+ brake torque falls off a cliff on overheating. ...and they overheat at a relatively low temperature. People who aren't really using the brakes but have good braking technique (slow drivers with some experience) can get away with this. People who are pushing should not run them.

Use at a given skill level is hard to judge. There are too many variables, so I simply can not recommend or encourage the use of them on track. Pad fade is no big deal. The problem is that the HP+ gives basically zero warning. One moment, they are working great, the next moment, they are gone. Pads like the ULTs suck on track, but at least they fade progressively.

To be clear, I like the HP+. I daily drive on them in the M3, the 330is, and my girlfriend runs them in her iX. They are simply the ultimate street/autox pad. They are just most emphatically not a track pad because they act like a track pad without offering the heat resistance.

[blefevre]

Ugh, come on people.

I asked if there is a street/track pad that doesn't make noise. Simple as that. I don't care if they are full track pads as long as they have a good cold bite (read: streetable) and will last 30 minute sessions of tracking for a novice, tame, driver.

I am NOT going for max speed/braking. I was just fine with the ULT's my first time out. The reason they were gone is because they had very little life left to begin with. I purposely went out on them to get a track day done with the remaining pads I have.

I would really like to avoid buying another set of pads for this season. I would much rather buy seat time.

So is there a pad that will work on the street and the track with little noise? I don't care about dust. If the simple answer is "no" then I will probably get HP+ because they are cheaper and if I hate the noise I will buy a street pad. If PFC01/06 work when cold and make less noise then good, I will buy them, etc.