Putting Together A Weekend Racer?

[EtaDriven]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm probably going to get a set of stock-like reclining seats (corbeau GTS-ii?) and just keep the stock belts for now. This car is probably going to stay a street car, so crossing the line into rollcage and fixed back territory would be a bit out of the scope of what I need the car to do.

[agent]

I approve of the last three posts.

Stay with sport seats and stock belts until they are a limiting factor. That will be a while.

[JimmyP]

I will be the first to admit I am not a fan of Tweeners. They end up doing both things poorly Either track the car stock with some DOTs and good brake pads, maybe some suspension or build it to do the job right,,, but I also understand the commitment needed for a trailer and a tow vehicle, etc. if you build a real track / race car.

With that said,,, my $0.02 is to avoid at all cost any "ASM" 4 point type or any other type of 4 point belts.
Either get a 6 point set or stay with stock belts.

When I get in a car to instruct and they have those 4 point ASM belts I don't use them I just put the stock belt on.

No matter what the marketing dept says, there is no amount you can tighten the lap belt that will keep that from sliding right up your waist.
If you attempt to cinch down the shoulders as tight as they should be, it will pull that lap belt right up off your hips. Four points are garbage.
Six point belts or stock.

[TobyB]

Oh, and unless you're pretty sure you will build a race car out of it, do a careful job (big base plates, etc)
with a bolt- in roll bar. Once the weld- in's done properly, it's very hard to go back.

The bolt- in can always be unbolted, resold, and the holes filled.
"Only driven at the weekend by a little old lady.
Errr, why, yes, she did do a LOT of track days!"

heh

t

[Digitalwave]

So, I've been looking to give my E30 a better driver seat, because I intend to do more track days / autocross, and the stock one is pretty beat.
I've found a fixed back that I like, but from what I hear, when you get a fixed back seat you need harnesses, and you'd do yourself a favor to put a proper rollcage in and buy a hans and all that...
MY question is, If I'm really only going to be doing the occasional track day + auto cross, but mostly daily driving, is there a reasonable compromise, say Schroth's quick fit harnesses + a fixed back, that will be good under stress and safe during normal street driving? or maybe stock seat (or another folding seat that would be compatible with stock belts) with a harness on track and stock belt off?
I want to be safe and have a comfortable, tight setup, but I don't want to completely overkill something that will realistically only see a few trackdays / autocrosses a year. I also don't want to hinder Daily drivability and/or hurt normal street safety, which apparently a fixed back seat without a rollcage can do.

This is my $0.02. You'll get 10 different answers from 10 different people.

E30 sport seats and stock seat belts are a good way to stay when you are dipping your toes into track and autocross. 4 point harnesses are typically frowned upon or not allowed at all on the track due to submarining issues. Same applies to simple bolt-in harness bars (as opposed to a 4 point roll bar, bolt-in or not). You'll see 4 point harnesses more often at autocross, since the speeds are lower and more people are using straight up street cars with stock seats that cannot accommodate an anti-sub belt (5 or 6 point harness).

The stock seats and 3 point belts are designed as part of a system that allows your body to move out of the way in the event of the roof crushing in on you. A fixed back seat doesn't usually play well with a stock 3 point belt. A harness needs a roll bar to be mounted properly. A harness and fixed back seat keep you sitting straight up and down in the event of a roll over. See where I'm going with this?

Think of it all as a system. If you are just getting started, start out with sport seats and stock belts. Perhaps do a reclinable aftermarket seat (Recaro SRD style) with the stock belts. Then, if you continue doing track & autocross events, cross the line of wanting/needing more safety equipment.

When I got more serious doing track days and autocrossing regularly, and started looking into safety equipment, I came to the conclusion that for me, it's an all or nothing thing. So I did fixed back seats, 6 point harnesses, and a 4 point roll bar all at the same time. I bought a HANS too. My E30 is not a daily driver, so the decision was easier for me. Rear and side visibility definitely sucks now. So that's something else to consider if you drive the car on the street.

Things start adding up quickly. A basic FIA-approved seat is ~$400+ (Corbeau, Sparco, OMP), harnesses are ~$200+ (Schroth, OMP, Sparco, RaceQuip, etc), seat brackets are ~$200+ (VAC, Bimmerworld), a roll bar is ~$650+ (VSR, Autopower, Kirk). A HANS II is $550.

Just some food for thought!

[EtaDriven]

Ok. I think for now I'll go with the Schroth harnesses, and if I want to do a lot more autocross / trackday events I'll put at least a rollbar and a proper 5/6pt. That sounds like consensus, and I don't think that a rollbar would hurt daily drivability. I just don't want to go to all the trouble of welding in a rollbar and all that if I don't end up doing that much autocross or tracking.

[vpilarrt]

From Schroth's website:

ASM stands for Anti-SubMarining. It's an extra flap of material sewn into the inboard shoulder belt that prevents you from sliding underneath the lap belt. In a 4 point harness made by some other company, the two shoulder straps restrain your upper body equally. They keep your chest from moving forward. However, this also pulls up on the lap belt and allows your accelerating pelvis to slide under the lap belt and cause serious damage to your stomach and intestines. With ASM, one of the shoulder belts will elongate at a different rate which will force your pelvis down into the seat cushion. Upon rebound, you will be placed back in an upright position with the belt correctly placed over your body.

This is the story I've read/heard on roll bars:

If you roll your car with it's OEM 3 point belts and seat and the roof crushes in, the belt and seat design allows your body to rotate over to the center of the car and, thus, not get crushed. If you have a 4 or 5 or 6 point harness (especially with a seat with side bolstering) it makes it harder for your body to rotate if you roll your car and you may get crushed /hurt unless you have a roll bar to prevent the roof from caving in.

Additionally, some track day organizations in my area don't allow 4 point belts, probably due to submarining concerns. Don't know how they feel about the Schroth ASM stuff.

[TobyB]

Honestly, I've never used a 4 point. There is concern that it could pull up in just the
wrong sort of stop, and that would be bad.
I DID really like the 5- point- lashed down hard to the car, your butt-o-meter gets
a much better reading.
At the time, Ultra- Shield harnesses were a good deal, so I used them.
I also left the stock belts for daily use, and pulled the 5 points when I wasn't lapping
weekly- less boy racer, less cop- bait. Also far, far easier. A tight 5- point makes
backing up a full- mirror excercise.

I mounted the roll bar main hoop back as far as I could (autopower, so it had a bit of wiggle)
and for the front seats in daily use, it was fine. In back, it was a complete headache-
(2 door) so I just put some carpet over 1/4" plywood in place of seats, and didn't put much back there.

t

[EtaDriven]

So would you say going with a 5/6 point harness is definitely worth it over a 4?
And out of curiosity, did you daily the car with the 5pt? how was that? Thanks
P.s. I have been digging around and it looks like the Schroth quickfit is something of a 5 pt, supposedly there's another strap called the ASM (anti-submarine-something) which is pretty much a 5th point that makes the harness much safer. can anyone confirm? It says so looking at Schroth's website and also the store page for the harness on ECS. If that's the case I'll probably go with this because If the ease of removal and install for when I use the car for mostly day to day driving.

[TobyB]

That's entirely up to you. The internet's full of opinions, some better than others. How much
someone foams at the mouth is not really an indication of how dead you will or won't be in various
forms of sudden stops.

My version was a roll bar when I went to 5 point harnesses.
The harnesses were well worth it.

The bar was not, as I never rolled the car.
I did sell it later, and recoup everything but shipping.

I used a seat from a production car
(Acura, I think) that fit me well. I modified it for the center strap.
It worked just fine, but the back seat was no longer usable.

What I did, some years back now.

t

[EtaDriven]

So, I've been looking to give my E30 a better driver seat, because I intend to do more track days / autocross, and the stock one is pretty beat.
I've found a fixed back that I like, but from what I hear, when you get a fixed back seat you need harnesses, and you'd do yourself a favor to put a proper rollcage in and buy a hans and all that...
MY question is, If I'm really only going to be doing the occasional track day + auto cross, but mostly daily driving, is there a reasonable compromise, say Schroth's quick fit harnesses + a fixed back, that will be good under stress and safe during normal street driving? or maybe stock seat (or another folding seat that would be compatible with stock belts) with a harness on track and stock belt off?
I want to be safe and have a comfortable, tight setup, but I don't want to completely overkill something that will realistically only see a few trackdays / autocrosses a year. I also don't want to hinder Daily drivability and/or hurt normal street safety, which apparently a fixed back seat without a rollcage can do.

[Reub_e30]

I think if you plan on tracking a stock e30 it needs a full tune up before you even think about it. Track pads and a good set of tires (not necessarily track tires but something that isn't dry rotten or have uneven wear)

[dirty30]

I was reading through the list and thought that fuel lines are often overlooked and many are 25+ year old rubber parts that contain flammable liquid. It would be prudent to replace them on any car over 15 years old on a street or track car.

This. Its dangerous and will also leave you stranded at the track unless you have a tow vehicle or the means to fix it yourself.

[dirty30]

E36 m3 and track time, or e30 and track time, or e46 and track time. Don't modify a damn thing aside from brake pads and go drive it.

I have to argue the other side of this....

Taking a totally stock vehicle to a track day, HPDE or the like is fun BUT a worn out E30 or E36 (maybe even a higher mileage E46 at this point) will not be very rewarding after one or two events. In addition to brake pads I would look into some decent suspension (even new stock components), tires and other brake components (lines, rotors etc.) I have a problem with seasoned track people simply telling people to bring their cars to the track because they don't need any special equipment and all they need is seat time etc. How many people do you see bringing their bone stock E30, E36 or E46 to the track year after year and not changing a damn thing but pads? None. It can be dangerous too, old struts can blow at the limit, a 20yr old bushing can deteriorate to the point of falling out, the list goes on. Just my 2 cents.

[Wild Ride]

I was reading through the list and thought that fuel lines are often overlooked and many are 25+ year old rubber parts that contain flammable liquid. It would be prudent to replace them on any car over 15 years old on a street or track car.