Let's talk about track day brakes

[Cephas]

Ill add my .02..

I run ht 10 on a massive street kit....my car is 99% tracked......ive run them for yrs, then tried DTC 60's......

I dont like the pedal feel on the 60's....I feel they are not as bitey, which I likey.

i will try the pfc or the st43 's.

that being said I need advice:


my brake pedal needs a pump or 2 on track to get hard. I have zero symptoms on street.


what say you?.....needs a bleed?, pedal knock back?, master cyl issue?, perhpas a ball jt going bad( caUSING THE KNOCK BACK?)..

Do these symptoms start right away, or are they after a couple laps?

When is the last time you did a full fluid flush?

When was the last time the calipers were rebuilt?


Check out the shit behind the piston in this thread:

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39965

Also, using compressed air to push a piston out seems really dumb. Dont atomize brake fluid!

[2mAn]

I think Im going to just buy a set of the cool carbons from Pelican... I got a coupon for 10% off haha

[kingston]

My occasional track car is not a DD. If it were though, I'd probably do a dedicated set of pads and rotors for street use (only) and another set of both for the track.

I am going this route. I have the Massive Engineering Sport 300mm BBK up front, and have been running HT10s. Great on the track...not so much for a street car.

So I will keep running them on track with a different set of rotors, and I am going to go to EBC Green Stuff for my street pads with a dedicated set of street rotors.

[nrubenstein]

One thing to keep in mind, is that in addition to sucking, Hawk Blue dust is seriously corrosive. Do *not* run them on a car that you care about the paint on.

Having used various kinds of Hawks and Carbotechs on track, I'm very, very pleased with the PFCs. Everything else that I've used either doesn't last as long, brakes worse, or both.

[JRKOUPE]

Ill add my .02..

I run ht 10 on a massive street kit....my car is 99% tracked......ive run them for yrs, then tried DTC 60's......

I dont like the pedal feel on the 60's....I feel they are not as bitey, which I likey.

i will try the pfc or the st43 's.

that being said I need advice:


my brake pedal needs a pump or 2 on track to get hard. I have zero symptoms on street.


what say you?.....needs a bleed?, pedal knock back?, master cyl issue?, perhpas a ball jt going bad( caUSING THE KNOCK BACK?)..

[HennaE30]

this is one of the rare threads on r3v that has stayed on topic, lets try to keep it that way :up:

any other input for those "weekend warriors" like me?

Swap pads, thats what we do on the E46. Z Rated's for the street, 08s or 11s (usually 08's) for the track. Also have a PFc front BBK on it. 350mm iirc.

[djjerme]

You know me Toby, I am never one to turn away hand me down spares!

:)

[TobyB]

uhhh, which Hawks?
I can't imagine the Blues lasting a thousand miles on the street-
those suckers spit more shavings than a Bridgeport
when they're cold...

In fact, there's a thread here http://www.bmwpugetsound.com/vbb/thr...-rotors.49108/

about using the darned things to strip buildup off of expensive rotors...

And yes, on the E30, they really didn't work very well.

Jeremy, if I find any spares/part used pads of the DTC/HT variety(I would swear I had some kicking around)
they're yours next time we're on track together

t


t

[Wschnitz]

Just popping in this thread to hammer on the Hawk pads suck, my hawks are almost toast and they only made it through maybe 5-8k miles of normal DD driving.

Pagids or PFC08 are gonna go on sometime soon.

[djjerme]

See, I feel the opposite - I like the feel of the DTC60/HT10 combo, and not a fan of the PFC08's...

I have ran the 08's in a couple of the Enduro's (Gary's car and others) and the feedback just wasn't the same. I didn't feel like I could brake as deep as I could with 60's..

[TobyB]

I tried several sets of the Blues, because they worked amazingly well in the 2002 with
the bigger calipers.
In the E30, I had real trouble with them overheating and not heating up evenly- as in, I'd
get too much rear brake on lap 2, but by lap 10, they were overheated in the rear and not
doing much. And by tempi- paint indicators, they all got too hot after 20 laps.
Maybe with ducts in back and for a lapping- not race- car they'd hold up.

Then I tried the DTC60/ht10 combo for a few sets, and just never got a pedal feel I could
count on. Unlike the Blues, that I liked the feel of, until they went away.

The PFC08's seem to be the best of both worlds so far...

And I completely agree- brake feel and function are a match to an individual driver.

How far I've gotten,

t
ps, the cross- drilled brake lines are a rip- off- don't spend the extra money...

[Fooshe]

I have heard PFC 08's a bunch and the Reybestos ST43, too. I used to run the 43's and loved them, but they cracked and didn't hold up that well for me in Spec E30.

I have since tried the Hawk DTC60's up front and DTC70's in back set up and the Hawk Blue at all 4 corners set up and they are both very, very nice. They feel like the old PFC 01 set up. Why they stopped making that compound for us is unknown...it was awesome. My E30 could stop a small Condo if I asked it to.

I will offer this, brakes are as much about feel to the driver as they are about stopping power. I must feel what the feedback is to them to determine which is best. It depends on the shoes you are using, the calipers you have, your level of sensitivity, etc.

I will also share this...I have found that being fast is not about jumping on the brakes late and carrying crazy speed into the corner only to really just save the car on the exit or just barely make it stick. Yeah, that's fun, but it's not fast. Braking early and smooth is more balanced and a more balanced car is faster through the corner and, consequently, at the exit of the corner...which is where it matters. However, the most over looked thing I see is the way you release the brakes. If you focus on the timing and method of the release of your brakes, you will be amazed at the dividend it pays.

For my set up and feel, I love the Hawk Blue pads for the track. They just work for me.

[TobyB]

swap pads?

This. After you've done a season or 2, none of the 'dual purpose' pads will hold up very well.

I know the pad people hate it, but the ATE street pads are pretty forgiving of track rotors, and I've never
had a problem with race pads not just re- facing the rotors as soon as you get some heat into them.

There are always exceptions, of course.

Or the 'instructor' approach was just to run street pads, and when they started to
fade, either cool them down or come on in.

t

[agent]

so it seems the PFC 08 is the way to go, but if this is a daily driver and occasional track car, what would you guys do in that situation? swap pads? or is there a good medium?

My occasional track car is not a DD. If it were though, I'd probably do a dedicated set of pads and rotors for street use (only) and another set of both for the track.

[Hooffenstein HD]

I find that standard ATE pads work great on the street and even the most spirited hills hooning. I'd like to know how they perform on track though considering they're less than half the price of these track pads.