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    Just another spring rate thread.

    I am looking at buying a GC coil over kit for my car and would like advice and opinions on spring rates.

    http://www.ground-control-store.com/.../II=912/CA=242

    My current setup:
    Bilstein Sports
    IE Stage III springs 315F/570R
    IE rear spring spacers
    Urethane bushings all around
    M3 offset control arm bushings
    IE fixed camber plates
    21mm front sway bar
    16mm H&R 3 way rear sway bar (set full stiff)

    The car has too much body roll for my taste. It doesn't handle well in quick transitions and I have grown accustom to throwing the car into turns, Scandinavian Flick style, to allow the suspension time to set before I actually start to apex.
    What I do love is I can mat the gas at corner exit and have 0 worries about oversteer.

    I talked with GC and they recommended 550 front and 850 rear but I have read where many people have issues with oversteer. I saw a thread where one gentleman was running 550/630 with a 25mm front sway bar and no rear sway bar and he loved it. Has several SCCA wins with that setup. Then I have read that e30s love 150% difference in springs which is what GC recommended...so.....?

    Pelican recommends 450/500 for an "all out road race car"
    http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...on_Recipes.htm


    The car is a secondary DD and ride comfort is not a concern. I would like to retain the exit speed capabilities while reducing body roll. Goals: to handle quick transitions and sweepers (50-60mph) while maintaining neutrality. With that said, I was leaning towards 550/650.

    Thoughts, input, comments?
    1988 Super E - RIP
    2016 Ford Escape - DD ;D
    2006 Chevy 2500 Duramax - Race car hauler
    1990 Corvette - Weekend toy
    1986 353 - Snow White, One Crazy Girl - SOLD :(
    1986 VW Jetta (vr6) - Racecar SOLD

    IG: RDE_Fabrications
    Check us out

    #2
    I should also add that my car is a 1988 325 4dr in full dress. ;)
    1988 Super E - RIP
    2016 Ford Escape - DD ;D
    2006 Chevy 2500 Duramax - Race car hauler
    1990 Corvette - Weekend toy
    1986 353 - Snow White, One Crazy Girl - SOLD :(
    1986 VW Jetta (vr6) - Racecar SOLD

    IG: RDE_Fabrications
    Check us out

    Comment


      #3
      450/ 650 works well on the track but we have them paired with bilstein sports and they are a little under dampened. We ran with a guy that had what I would call a "backward" set up of 800/700 with koni SA's and sway bars although I don't remember the diameter. Some people with e30s use stiff rear springs in lieu of a rear sway bar, the more articulation the rear trailing arms have seems to keep the tires on the ground so the diff doesn't let loose (stock clutch LSD). Spec E30 guys are kind of split down the middle on this although they can only use H&R race springs. Less body roll doesn't always equate to better handling, I wouldn't base your vehicles handling profile soley on the amount of body roll you do/ don't have. You didn't say what you are using the car for besides the scandinavian flick which isn't really a road race move unless you want to piss everyone off or confuse people and "quick transitions" so maybe autocross is your thing? Autocross is a good way of really discovering the pros/ cons of your setup without endangering other drivers, your neighbors cat or little billy down the street when he runs after his basketball into the road. I'm not an expert in suspension geometry just my input for you.

      Comment


        #4
        You should just try it and see.

        The thing is, we all like different things, and what
        fits your snap style might not suit someone
        else's 'roll into it' style.

        315 in front does seem very soft.
        I have never really agreed with GC's 'equal wheel rate' recommendations.

        t
        now, sometimes I just mess with people. It's more entertaining that way. george graves

        Comment


          #5
          Do you have M3 style sway bar links up front?
          sigpic

          Comment


            #6
            I believe you're going to want less rear sway bar with the recommended setup from GC.
            The new suggested rates have more rear oversteer bias that H&R race's rates mathematically.

            Then again, you are switching to Koni's at that point.. so another variable has been added.

            1991 325iS turbo

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by e30_302 View Post
              Do you have M3 style sway bar links up front?
              No. Sway bar is control arm mounted.

              Originally posted by ak- View Post
              I believe you're going to want less rear sway bar with the recommended setup from GC.
              The new suggested rates have more rear oversteer bias that H&R race's rates mathematically.

              Then again, you are switching to Koni's at that point.. so another variable has been added.
              I'm not against ditching the rear sway bar and increasing the front if needed. Supposedly, the bilstein won't work with springs much over factory rates and re valving cosys as much as buying the single adjustable koni.
              1988 Super E - RIP
              2016 Ford Escape - DD ;D
              2006 Chevy 2500 Duramax - Race car hauler
              1990 Corvette - Weekend toy
              1986 353 - Snow White, One Crazy Girl - SOLD :(
              1986 VW Jetta (vr6) - Racecar SOLD

              IG: RDE_Fabrications
              Check us out

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by sgtskid View Post
                I talked with GC and they recommended 550 front and 850 rear but I have read where many people have issues with oversteer. I saw a thread where one gentleman was running 550/630 with a 25mm front sway bar and no rear sway bar and he loved it. Has several SCCA wins with that setup. Then I have read that e30s love 150% difference in springs which is what GC recommended...so.....?

                Just go with what GC suggests.

                The fact that you are just going off random threads and sh*t you read on the interwebz just re-enforces this even more.

                GC didn't get their reputation by just pulling spring rates randomly out of their arse and not knowing anything about car setup. As long as you gave them all the information they asked for on your setup, they'll give you a decent recommendation. Call them up and talk to them.

                Then once you get used to the setup start tweaking settings. The nice thing is springs are cheap if you decide to monkey with rates..

                Go with the advise of someone who's company name/reputation/financial future is dependent on the advice they give, rather than some random dude who has nothing invested in your satisfaction with the suspension setup.


                Then ask us what to change once you have played with the setup on your car for a season.


                *to add, I have played around with several different rates/bars..etc on my own race car. Even ran without rear sway (it's currently set up that way after I snapped a swaybar arm in half - long story..)

                That being said - if you are not going full 'tard with the car, I would not suggest any of the setups I have ran for coilovers, the car will not be fun to drive outside the track. And I drive my car to and from the track.. It's a PITA to drive a full race setup suspension on the street - you will feel EVERYTHING in the road, and even somethings that aren't there!
                Last edited by djjerme; 04-15-2016, 07:55 AM.
                1984 Alpina B6 2.8/1 #35
                1991 325i MT2 Touring (JDM bro)
                1991 Racecar (Chase Schmidt's former drift car - M30)
                2006 BMW X3
                2011 Audi A3 - wife's other German car

                Comment


                  #9
                  :up: thank you for the advice

                  Originally posted by djjerme View Post
                  Just go with what GC suggests.

                  The fact that you are just going off random threads and sh*t you read on the interwebz just re-enforces this even more.

                  GC didn't get their reputation by just pulling spring rates randomly out of their arse and not knowing anything about car setup. As long as you gave them all the information they asked for on your setup, they'll give you a decent recommendation. Call them up and talk to them.

                  Then once you get used to the setup start tweaking settings. The nice thing is springs are cheap if you decide to monkey with rates..

                  Go with the advise of someone who's company name/reputation/financial future is dependent on the advice they give, rather than some random dude who has nothing invested in your satisfaction with the suspension setup.


                  Then ask us what to change once you have played with the setup on your car for a season.


                  *to add, I have played around with several different rates/bars..etc on my own race car. Even ran without rear sway (it's currently set up that way after I snapped a swaybar arm in half - long story..)

                  That being said - if you are not going full 'tard with the car, I would not suggest any of the setups I have ran for coilovers, the car will not be fun to drive outside the track. And I drive my car to and from the track.. It's a PITA to drive a full race setup suspension on the street - you will feel EVERYTHING in the road, and even somethings that aren't there!
                  1988 Super E - RIP
                  2016 Ford Escape - DD ;D
                  2006 Chevy 2500 Duramax - Race car hauler
                  1990 Corvette - Weekend toy
                  1986 353 - Snow White, One Crazy Girl - SOLD :(
                  1986 VW Jetta (vr6) - Racecar SOLD

                  IG: RDE_Fabrications
                  Check us out

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I'm planning on going with a GC setup going with 450/650 setup with a big front sway and little to no rear sway in the back. Seems to be a autox proven setup
                    Last edited by Reub_e30; 04-15-2016, 02:24 PM.
                    Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.

                    Daily: 06 Chevy Colorado (wannabe racetruck)
                    Drift/Track Car: 91 Bmw 318i 4dr

                    Comment


                      #11
                      GC didn't get their reputation by just pulling spring rates randomly out of their arse and not knowing anything about car setup.
                      Jeremy, I generally would agree with this. But given what all of us run for f/r rates,
                      I just don't see how GC's soft front/stiff rear recommendations would work.

                      At Portland, I find that 600f/700r is too prone to oversteer for me. And I came out of a 2002...

                      t
                      now, sometimes I just mess with people. It's more entertaining that way. george graves

                      Comment


                        #12
                        See, I set my car up with a ton of oversteer. Currently have 650f/750r. But I am reconnecting the rear sway before the Rat Race, and swapping the GC setup off my other white car, since my home built coilover setup blew up on one corner..

                        Sent from my 710C using Tapatalk
                        1984 Alpina B6 2.8/1 #35
                        1991 325i MT2 Touring (JDM bro)
                        1991 Racecar (Chase Schmidt's former drift car - M30)
                        2006 BMW X3
                        2011 Audi A3 - wife's other German car

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the original recommended GC setup. The guy I spoke with today was different and he thought the setup was a little "extreme."

                          Which is precisely why I wanted input from other e30 owners. I could recommend spring rates for a Honda but unless I drive one i can't say how it'll react.

                          Hopefully it isn't too tail happy.
                          At least springs are relatively inexpensive.
                          1988 Super E - RIP
                          2016 Ford Escape - DD ;D
                          2006 Chevy 2500 Duramax - Race car hauler
                          1990 Corvette - Weekend toy
                          1986 353 - Snow White, One Crazy Girl - SOLD :(
                          1986 VW Jetta (vr6) - Racecar SOLD

                          IG: RDE_Fabrications
                          Check us out

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Heck, check in with the circle track or dirt track guys, they seem to always have shelves full of different spring rates and lengths..

                            Sent from my 710C using Tapatalk
                            1984 Alpina B6 2.8/1 #35
                            1991 325i MT2 Touring (JDM bro)
                            1991 Racecar (Chase Schmidt's former drift car - M30)
                            2006 BMW X3
                            2011 Audi A3 - wife's other German car

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Yeah I highly recommend hypercoil springs if you need to change your rates. Had them on my autox truck. Great stuff
                              Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.

                              Daily: 06 Chevy Colorado (wannabe racetruck)
                              Drift/Track Car: 91 Bmw 318i 4dr

                              Comment

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