Carbotech XP10 for HPDE track days with S52 swpa

[agent]

Driven more than one track Miata on Carbotechs. I've read many people complain about break-in, but I know multiple people who follow the same process I did, with no issues.

A nice bonus is they are easy on rotors and aren't harmful to wheels finishes.


Bleed brakes and Install Carbotech's on fresh rotors that have been thoroughly cleaned.

Find a spot where you can follow this exact procedure:

1. Start doing 70-5 mph stops, HARD, on the verge of lockup, threshold braking.
2. Repeat step 1 until the brakes start to smell.
3. Continue to repeat step 1 until the brakes REALLY smell and the pedal starts to get soft.
4. Let cool completely.
5. Bleed brakes again.

Enjoy.

I prefer the PFC break-in method:

1. Install PFC-08s and fresh rotors*
2. Bleed brakes*
3. Drag brakes during out/pace/warm-up lap
4. Marvel at your braking prowess
5. Rinse and repeat once pads are used up

*at track if desired

[plain325]

Your repartee is amazing. Let me know when you're next show is.

Thats all ive got, it would be a short show

One thing about Carbotech's, and GLoc's, is the pad dust isn't corrosive. The last track day I did in my Miata was wet the first half of the day. Brake dust was caked on the wheels. I let it sit for 7-8 months, washed right off without damaging the finish of the wheels.

I have tried for years, and probably dozens of HPDE days(yes, just HPDEs) to get the Carbotechs to work for me because the dust is so benign. Seriously, my track wheels are probably the cleanest wheels on any of my cars.
Maybe i suck at driving, or too hard on the brakes, but i tend to get terrible brake shudder after a few sessions.
I believe Gloc was started by former owners or employees of Carbotech, so i imagine the compounds are about the same.
I think i am just going to have to bite the bullet and get some PFCs and a bucket of soapy water.

[z31maniac]

Well, this one time, i asked a miata guy what pads he was using. He shrugged his shoulders and told me he barely touches the brakes, maybe 2 or 3 places on the track.
I feel this one piece of anecdotal evidence allows me to speak with authority on the topic.

Your repartee is amazing. Let me know when you're next show is.

Ok so the cost for the pfc 08 vs carbotech is worth it?

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One thing about Carbotech's, and GLoc's, is the pad dust isn't corrosive. The last track day I did in my Miata was wet the first half of the day. Brake dust was caked on the wheels. I let it sit for 7-8 months, washed right off without damaging the finish of the wheels.


Another thing to consider is not just longevity, but feel. Some guys like Carbotech's, some PFC, some Hawk, some Wilwood..........just depends.

So it might not be a bad idea to try a few different pads and see if you like one more than the other.

[nrubenstein]

Ok so the cost for the pfc 08 vs carbotech is worth it?

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In my experience, I got a minimum of double the life, and frequently more than that from PFC01s vs. XP10/11/12/13 (the compounds I recall trying). And the braking was WAY better.

So yeah.

[surebimmer]

Ok so the cost for the pfc 08 vs carbotech is worth it?

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[plain325]

Best you could come up with?

Try again sweetheart.

Well, this one time, i asked a miata guy what pads he was using. He shrugged his shoulders and told me he barely touches the brakes, maybe 2 or 3 places on the track.
I feel this one piece of anecdotal evidence allows me to speak with authority on the topic.

[nrubenstein]

My experience with the Carbotechs was that they worked OK, but didn't last for shit. The general consensus seems to be that they work great on lighter cars. I never had vibration issues, I just had issues with burning through them far too rapidly.

I also don't like the Hawk DTCs. Poor life and incredibly hard on the rotors.

For me, PFCs were a revelation. The increased cost was more than made up for in durability, AND they brake better. Basically a no-brainer.

[z31maniac]

Yea but...... how often do you really have to use the brakes on a track prepped miata? Unless its turbod or engine swapped.

Best you could come up with?

Try again sweetheart.

[ForcedFirebird]

Yea but...... how often do you really have to use the brakes on a track prepped miata? Unless its turbod or engine swapped.

HA! So true.



First time I drove a Spec Miata was at Sebring. I did a lap and thought to myself "this thing is so slow and just makes a lot of noise". Then coming down the front straight, I thought "wait...Miata...less braking". Sucked in my gut and just did a throttle lift for turn 1 instead of braking like when in the e30, and couldn't believe how well the car stuck. The lst 30mins of the session was actually fun. The next year I started the 14hr of Sebring in a Miata, and promptly passed the other teammate - who was driving our e30. Had a really good time weaving though traffic until the cool shirt cooler stopped working and nearly had heat stroke (had to get out of the car after 1.5hr dry heaving and nauseous).

[plain325]

Driven more than one track Miata on Carbotechs. I've read many people complain about break-in, but I know multiple people who follow the same process I did, with no issues.

A nice bonus is they are easy on rotors and aren't harmful to wheels finishes.


Bleed brakes and Install Carbotech's on fresh rotors that have been thoroughly cleaned.

Find a spot where you can follow this exact procedure:

1. Start doing 70-5 mph stops, HARD, on the verge of lockup, threshold braking.
2. Repeat step 1 until the brakes start to smell.
3. Continue to repeat step 1 until the brakes REALLY smell and the pedal starts to get soft.
4. Let cool completely.
5. Bleed brakes again.

Enjoy.

Yea but...... how often do you really have to use the brakes on a track prepped miata? Unless its turbod or engine swapped.

[surebimmer]

Thanks for evryones input. I'm going to try the Carbotech xp10's and report back. I don't have a track day until the end of July.

[z31maniac]

Driven more than one track Miata on Carbotechs. I've read many people complain about break-in, but I know multiple people who follow the same process I did, with no issues.

A nice bonus is they are easy on rotors and aren't harmful to wheels finishes.


Bleed brakes and Install Carbotech's on fresh rotors that have been thoroughly cleaned.

Find a spot where you can follow this exact procedure:

1. Start doing 70-5 mph stops, HARD, on the verge of lockup, threshold braking.
2. Repeat step 1 until the brakes start to smell.
3. Continue to repeat step 1 until the brakes REALLY smell and the pedal starts to get soft.
4. Let cool completely.
5. Bleed brakes again.

Enjoy.

[ForcedFirebird]

Instead of changing the master, could delete the bias valve.

I started out using Carbotech xp16 for the first couple track years, never had any warping/shuttering - except the one time I got a flat mid-session and didn't do a cool down lap (no brake ducts).

For about the last few years been using dtc60 front/70 rear (stock brake setup, 2650lb/180whp) and they last an entire 14hr race and have about 40% f and 70% rear left on them depending on which track. We alsways buy the cheapest rotors we can find (Centric blanks) and they have small 4-8mm hairline cracks throughout.

On the e36 we run dtc 30f 50r, but that has the 1m front calipers e36m rear. 2750lb/255whp, sprint car, brakes last ~2 weekends.

[Digitalwave]

I am not familiar with anything 325ix but if it uses the same 22mm/f and 17mm/r MC as a non-M, going to the 25mm f/r E32 MC will provide much better bias. The E30 M3 MC was 23.8mm f/r (equal f/r) but does not work with non-M's. The E32 MC is the closest and easiest option to fix the bias.

[surebimmer]

I'm running the 325xi booster. I think it has the stock master. Should I swap the master on this unit?

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