Carbotech XP10 for HPDE track days with S52 swpa

[nrubenstein]

My experience with the Carbotechs was that they worked OK, but didn't last for shit. The general consensus seems to be that they work great on lighter cars. I never had vibration issues, I just had issues with burning through them far too rapidly.

I also don't like the Hawk DTCs. Poor life and incredibly hard on the rotors.

For me, PFCs were a revelation. The increased cost was more than made up for in durability, AND they brake better. Basically a no-brainer.

[plain325]

Best you could come up with?

Try again sweetheart.

Well, this one time, i asked a miata guy what pads he was using. He shrugged his shoulders and told me he barely touches the brakes, maybe 2 or 3 places on the track.
I feel this one piece of anecdotal evidence allows me to speak with authority on the topic.

[surebimmer]

Ok so the cost for the pfc 08 vs carbotech is worth it?

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[nrubenstein]

Ok so the cost for the pfc 08 vs carbotech is worth it?

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In my experience, I got a minimum of double the life, and frequently more than that from PFC01s vs. XP10/11/12/13 (the compounds I recall trying). And the braking was WAY better.

So yeah.

[z31maniac]

Well, this one time, i asked a miata guy what pads he was using. He shrugged his shoulders and told me he barely touches the brakes, maybe 2 or 3 places on the track.
I feel this one piece of anecdotal evidence allows me to speak with authority on the topic.

Your repartee is amazing. Let me know when you're next show is.

Ok so the cost for the pfc 08 vs carbotech is worth it?

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One thing about Carbotech's, and GLoc's, is the pad dust isn't corrosive. The last track day I did in my Miata was wet the first half of the day. Brake dust was caked on the wheels. I let it sit for 7-8 months, washed right off without damaging the finish of the wheels.


Another thing to consider is not just longevity, but feel. Some guys like Carbotech's, some PFC, some Hawk, some Wilwood..........just depends.

So it might not be a bad idea to try a few different pads and see if you like one more than the other.

[plain325]

Your repartee is amazing. Let me know when you're next show is.

Thats all ive got, it would be a short show

One thing about Carbotech's, and GLoc's, is the pad dust isn't corrosive. The last track day I did in my Miata was wet the first half of the day. Brake dust was caked on the wheels. I let it sit for 7-8 months, washed right off without damaging the finish of the wheels.

I have tried for years, and probably dozens of HPDE days(yes, just HPDEs) to get the Carbotechs to work for me because the dust is so benign. Seriously, my track wheels are probably the cleanest wheels on any of my cars.
Maybe i suck at driving, or too hard on the brakes, but i tend to get terrible brake shudder after a few sessions.
I believe Gloc was started by former owners or employees of Carbotech, so i imagine the compounds are about the same.
I think i am just going to have to bite the bullet and get some PFCs and a bucket of soapy water.

[agent]

Driven more than one track Miata on Carbotechs. I've read many people complain about break-in, but I know multiple people who follow the same process I did, with no issues.

A nice bonus is they are easy on rotors and aren't harmful to wheels finishes.


Bleed brakes and Install Carbotech's on fresh rotors that have been thoroughly cleaned.

Find a spot where you can follow this exact procedure:

1. Start doing 70-5 mph stops, HARD, on the verge of lockup, threshold braking.
2. Repeat step 1 until the brakes start to smell.
3. Continue to repeat step 1 until the brakes REALLY smell and the pedal starts to get soft.
4. Let cool completely.
5. Bleed brakes again.

Enjoy.

I prefer the PFC break-in method:

1. Install PFC-08s and fresh rotors*
2. Bleed brakes*
3. Drag brakes during out/pace/warm-up lap
4. Marvel at your braking prowess
5. Rinse and repeat once pads are used up

*at track if desired

[ForcedFirebird]

Never have "broke in pads" and just put them on and send it. Lol.

Just like the guys that weave on the out lap, not sure it's much more than a farse.

Generally new pads/rotors go on in the garage/cold pit, squeeze the old fluid from the lines, then do a "14hr hot lap" with zero change in wear or performance.

[Digitalwave]

I prefer the PFC break-in method:

1. Install PFC-08s and fresh rotors*
2. Bleed brakes*
3. Drag brakes during out/pace/warm-up lap
4. Marvel at your braking prowess
5. Rinse and repeat once pads are used up

*at track if desired

^^ This

[kevnj]

I’m running a massive race kit on my swap car. While the initial $’s needed made my knees shake doing the math my break even point is about 4 years. I’m on the same set of pads after 20 days on track and they are only half worn! The rotors have plenty of meat on them too. Using Wilwoods highest friction pad (manual brakes) they are only 120-140 a set. Braking confidence also allows for extremely late braking. If your gonna stay in the sport for the long haul it’s something to consider.

[mwagner10702]

The PRO3 guys here in the Northwest run Performance Friction pads (PFC11 in front and PFC08 in the rear. Some run PFC11 all around). I personally run Cobalt Friction pads (XR2 in front and XR4 in the rear). The Cobalt Friction pads have great initial bite and a nice torque curve.

My track setup is Ground Control coil overs with 550lb front and 750lb rear springs, 22mm and 19mm sways and Pirelli Trofeo R tires on 15x8 Kosie K1 wheels.

[mwagner10702]

. . . . but i tend to get terrible brake shudder after a few sessions.

1) Likely you didn't bed the pads in properly. Were you running a street pad before the pad swap?
2) If they are a race compound you are probably not getting the pads into the correct operating temperature zone.
3) Likely have pad deposits left over from the street pads on your rotors and / or you have some glazing on the pads.

[plain325]

1) Likely you didn't bed the pads in properly. Were you running a street pad before the pad swap?
2) If they are a race compound you are probably not getting the pads into the correct operating temperature zone.
3) Likely have pad deposits left over from the street pads on your rotors and / or you have some glazing on the pads.

Im about to pull the trigger on new pads, remembered this thread, wanted to make sure PFC08s were the hot ticket.

I tried following the carbotech break instructions as closely as possible, but where is a person supposed to reasonably do that?
I have never run used rotors with new pads.
xp-10 does not list a lower temp range, however the higher rated xp12 lists 250F at the low end. My infrared temp gun would indicate ~500F on the rotors after a cooldown lap. I could also see signifigant pad deposits on the rotor after a session. I dont think i was below their temperature range.

[Digitalwave]

I absolutely love my PFC 08's. Bed them in on your first few out laps at the track. They last a long time and have great performance, only downside is they are pretty spendy.

[ian e30 318is]

I'm using Carbotech XP10's with my s52 swap for canyon driving and track days. They've felt great and lasted a decent amount of time, but I'll be switching to PFC01 or 08 on my next set.