NOR-CAL General Chat.

[Wh33lhop]

I want to drive a Torsen'd car. Driven a few Evos with them which were sweet, but never a BMW.

[Wanganstyle]

I want to drive a Torsen'd car. Driven a few Evos with them which were sweet, but never a BMW.

Its ok. I've played the torsen card more than a few times and always gone back to clutch type. However diff games is a luxury I do have.

Bmw motorsports handling is always setup for clutch type units; torsen is good for those without the budget to build a clutch type unit with new parts.

The rebuild parts for a stock clutch type unit cost more than a complete used torsen.

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[Pantless Spency]

new control arms and spark plugs just came in the mail for the e21 :D

[decay]

I want to drive a Torsen'd car. Driven a few Evos with them which were sweet, but never a BMW.

i need to swap my rear hubs from the Z3 units that are in there now to 318ti because rubbing. when i do i'll bring it to an AutoX and you can have at it.

[suruba]

I read a lot of the Inside LSD thread. great info.

the quoted post is now very powerful information coming from you.

I've liked the torsen for exactly the reason you have rebuilt so many clutch diffs. They're much longer life if you exclude clutch pack service ablitiy, which are cost exclusive in BMW, as you mentioned. I like the way the Torsen doesn't require any kind of load or input to activate other than two solid wheels on the ground, but then again I don't like that if i lift a wheel, I'm likely going to spin out, but some clutch types do that as well. The torsen feels more solid, while the clutch to me seems like an engagement point when hooning, which is probably what eats the clutches so hard in the first place. If you have a lot of torque the torsen is great for instant gratification.

Dave

Its ok. I've played the torsen card more than a few times and always gone back to clutch type. However diff games is a luxury I do have.

Bmw motorsports handling is always setup for clutch type units; torsen is good for those without the budget to build a clutch type unit with new parts.

The rebuild parts for a stock clutch type unit cost more than a complete used torsen.

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[suruba]

i need to swap my rear hubs from the Z3 units that are in there now to 318ti because rubbing. when i do i'll bring it to an AutoX and you can have at it.

I have m3 rear hubs. Can I put those on 18ti trailing arms?

Dave

[Wanganstyle]

You like torsen because cheap. Me too; thats the only reason I ran a few (also curiosity)

If you have alot of torque you want a clutch type unit; torsen units are designed to NOT lock. (unless they are patented torsen-gleason with locking).

In can am racing days this the torsen gleason was designed so there could be full lockup; modern torsen units never lock and if one wheel = airborne the gear type units are = open diff.

At very high power levels this biasing is a bit scary, not nearly as consistant and stable. Units for 800-1krwhp cars are always clutch type.

I spend money on differential; many competitive racers do also. Racing ring and pinion sets for some cars are a happy 1k for naked gears alone; os giken fluid is $55/L and special order from japan.

If one cannot afford to have a proper clutch differential -I.e. one with new parts and wear items then buying a junkyard torsen is a much better bet for newer bearings than a junk e30 unit.

If money is not an object you will pick a clutch type diff.


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[decay]

I have m3 rear hubs. Can I put those on 18ti trailing arms?

Dave

i don't have an answer for that, sorry- my suspension is non-M E36 front, Z3 1.8 rear (trailing arms are the same part number for Z3/318ti, only the hubs are different).

never tried any E30M3 hardware.

5-lug swaps are kind of a losing proposition either way- either you go with the E36 stuff and accept that you're not going to get much camber up front while knowing that wear items are cheap, or you pay to play with the E30M3 hardware.

i'm happy with my setup because the combination of tiny M42 engine in front, torsen diff in back, and a lot of tire for a street car (225/45-16 KDW) handles well- but without all of those elements i wouldn't be- clutch-type diff caused push when i had one, so would running a 6-cyl engine, and i had miserable understeer when i was running the cheap 205/50-16 tires that originally came on my style 5s.

[suruba]

http://www.torsen.com/products/T-2.htm

this is the diff I had in the cobra. I can't find too much information about the torsen in the z3, is it any different?

Dave

You like torsen because cheap. Me too; thats the only reason I ran a few (also curiosity)

If you have alot of torque you want a clutch type unit; torsen units are designed to NOT lock. (unless they are patented torsen-gleason with locking).

In can am racing days this the torsen gleason was designed so there could be full lockup; modern torsen units never lock and if one wheel = airborne the gear type units are = open diff.

At very high power levels this biasing is a bit scary, not nearly as consistant and stable. Units for 800-1krwhp cars are always clutch type.

I spend money on differential; many competitive racers do also. Racing ring and pinion sets for some cars are a happy 1k for naked gears alone; os giken fluid is $55/L and special order from japan.

If one cannot afford to have a proper clutch differential -I.e. one with new parts and wear items then buying a junkyard torsen is a much better bet for newer bearings than a junk e30 unit.

If money is not an object you will pick a clutch type diff.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[decay]

You like torsen because cheap. Me too; thats the only reason I ran a few (also curiosity)

If you have alot of torque you want a clutch type unit; torsen units are designed to NOT lock. (unless they are patented torsen-gleason with locking).

In can am racing days this the torsen gleason was designed so there could be full lockup; modern torsen units never lock and if one wheel = airborne the gear type units are = open diff.

At very high power levels this biasing is a bit scary, not nearly as consistant and stable. Units for 800-1krwhp cars are always clutch type.

I spend money on differential; many competitive racers do also. Racing ring and pinion sets for some cars are a happy 1k for naked gears alone; os giken fluid is $55/L and special order from japan.

If one cannot afford to have a proper clutch differential -I.e. one with new parts and wear items then buying a junkyard torsen is a much better bet for newer bearings than a junk e30 unit.

If money is not an object you will pick a clutch type diff.


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all of this reinforces what i've been saying- yes, a clutch-type is better for a high-horsepower track car driven at the absolute limit.

the vast majority of r3v readers are not tracking their cars; they are dailying. (myself included.) how many of us have 800-1K horsepower cars?

if you aren't running spring rates stiff enough to lift the inside rear, the torsen is not just a cheaper solution, it's a better one; in that context, a clutch-type acts passively- yeah, it's locked, until you overpower the clutch packs, and then you might as well have an open. a torsen diff is an active device rather than a passive; it finds the traction and uses it, up to the point where there's none available (and beyond that there's little difference between the two). and to reiterate- it doesn't cause turn-in push like a clutch-type will.

how much money you're willing to spend is not the point. the appropriate hardware for the use case is, and the way you're wording this is likely to get people to waste money on expensive clutch rebuilds, when it really isn't the right hardware for how they use the car.

[Wanganstyle]

Clutch type units are active devices when set up to be; stop at Edge Motorworks in Mountainview when you are making a courier run and look at my cutaway display 1.5 way diff; I chopped a e36m lsd in half and filled it with mototsports setting + special ramp BS.

Its a full working model and acts as an open diff when wheel speeds are same. Turn the axles with your own hands untill it locks; its a throttle/ wheel speed activated device.

Bmw sets up the zf units like this for motorsports (Ferrari does also; have you ever driven a Ferrari- they handle pretty damm good)

Actually most racers dont have any more horsepower than street cars; racers have budgets also.

Nasa gts is regulated by power/weight equation. Simple math after dyno and weigh in.

~200rwhp is plenty for gts2
~240rwhp for gts3. Many actually de-tune power.
~290rwhp-more for gts4

Clutch diff units factort setup from bmw in street cars are just that; the handling changes massive when its setup for the actual car in question.

Clutch packs don't get overpowered; unless dead and garbage; they do have a service interval just like everything else. 30 year old car.......

Good sporting Street cars benefit more from a fancy diff setting than suspension modifications; if you want a real torsen- go buy a QUAIFE.

Bmw oem torsen is not a real sports torsen sorry.

Lifting tires is stupid; something is wrong when this happens unless you are jumping a berm at 7a corkscrew.





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[Cabriolet]

while we are on the topic. has anyone used http://www.bimmerdiffs.com/collectio...-kit-40-lockup
?

[decay]

for the 3rd time.

i'm talking about the best solution for a STREET CAR.

that's the context for 99% of the readers of this forum.

if you want to wag your e-peen around about what's best for track use, you should probably go to e30tech. ;)

[suruba]

The corkscrew is exactly why I'm building the car...I live in Monterey and want to take advantage of the many HPDE's that clubs have here (i drive out there when I know they're there, most are really cool clubs)

*Edit* this ca's goal is strictly track-able as in able on the track, while still being street civil.

I was stoked on the torsen, now not so much, i wondered why I'd paid over 2k for a diff in that car, it's been almost a decade.

Quaife was the original thought process for me, find a free med case and pay the coin to put the right diff in it the first time, with the ring and pinion I want. but that's expensive. I spent almost a house worth of money on that cobra and I don't want to be repeating myself. I guess I'm still going to go torsen because it's cheaper and a better option for used, but it's not the diff I thought it was going to be

Dave

Clutch type units are active devices when set up to be; stop at Edge Motorworks in Mountainview when you are making a courier run and look at my cutaway display 1.5 way diff; I chopped a e36m lsd in half and filled it with mototsports setting + special ramp BS.

Its a full working model and acts as an open diff when wheel speeds are same. Turn the axles with your own hands untill it locks; its a throttle/ wheel speed activated device.

Bmw sets up the zf units like this for motorsports (Ferrari does also; have you ever driven a Ferrari- they handle pretty damm good)

Actually most racers dont have any more horsepower than street cars; racers have budgets also.

Nasa gts is regulated by power/weight equation. Simple math after dyno and weigh in.

~200rwhp is plenty for gts2
~240rwhp for gts3. Many actually de-tune power.
~290rwhp-more for gts4

Clutch diff units factort setup from bmw in street cars are just that; the handling changes massive when its setup for the actual car in question.

Clutch packs don't get overpowered; unless dead and garbage; they do have a service interval just like everything else. 30 year old car.......

Good sporting Street cars benefit more from a fancy diff setting than suspension modifications; if you want a real torsen- go buy a QUAIFE.

Bmw oem torsen is not a real sports torsen sorry.

Lifting tires is stupid; something is wrong when this happens unless you are jumping a berm at 7a corkscrew.





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[decay]

Quaife was the original thought process for me, find a free med case and pay the coin to put the right diff in it the first time, with the ring and pinion I want. but that's expensive.

Quaife is a Torsen diff also. no difference between that and what you can pull out of a junkard Z3, unless you're looking for a ratio the factory didn't provide.

since you've clarified you run HPDEs, Wanganstyle's advice is worth considering, if it's in your budget.