Anyone running a RMS S/C on a swap car?

[rneedham1979]

Who's? I was unaware there was a 500whp e36 floating around.

After driving a 500whp RMS supercharged e36

[jrdeamicis]

Who's? I was unaware there was a 500whp e36 floating around.

In which charger application?

Turbo or SC?

Did you mean E30s?

In the e36 platform 500whp is all around.

[madjurgen]

Who's? I was unaware there was a 500whp e36 floating around.

Dude, youre on bfc.FI all the time. I only know cause I see you starting the same lame threads over there as you do here. How did you miss M3Jasper's quest and successful achievement of +500rwhp on a CF setup? For someone trying to achieve the same thing you think you would know all about his setup.

[sharky]

btw my SC is M3jaspers old setup.

[Mr Two]

I've heard it mentioned that heat soak tends to be an issue on the track with most FI'd e36s - Gonna run some beefy cooling, Polak?

[e30polak]

Who's? I was unaware there was a 500whp e36 floating around.

Osh built a couple. My buddy Brady used to own the first, fully built low compression s52, with forged internals, crazy head work, RMS SC headers, I believe the latest T-trim Vortech, etc. I believe it put down 504 whp, it's crazy fast!

I've heard it mentioned that heat soak tends to be an issue on the track with most FI'd e36s - Gonna run some beefy cooling, Polak?

RMS after cooler, a large heat exchanger, and meth. That should be alright.

[triggrhaapi]

You mean water/methanol right? I'm pretty sure that methamphetamine won't cool your car.

BTW, straight methanol injection will make your combustion temps higher in my experience. You want at least some water in there to cool the intake charge and scavenge some kinetic energy from that heat.

[matt]

It IS true with a twin screw, it is NOT true with a centrifugal. Well, at least if it's directly driven. If you use a viscous transmission, then it's PSI based and the super doesn't make the same number of revolutions per engine revolution at any given RPM.

However, a twin screw WILL displace a specific amount of air per S/C rev. That's why their size is measured in liters.

Right, but it's not that simple. Not by a million miles.

NOTHING like an NA motor.

[e30polak]

You mean water/methanol right? I'm pretty sure that methamphetamine won't cool your car.

BTW, straight methanol injection will make your combustion temps higher in my experience. You want at least some water in there to cool the intake charge and scavenge some kinetic energy from that heat.

I'll do whatever Osh recommends.

[triggrhaapi]

Right, but it's not that simple. Not by a million miles.

NOTHING like an NA motor.

In terms of tuning, it seems like it would be more like an N/A motor than like a turbo motor. There's no wastegate control for one, there's no boost targeting, none of that. All of what makes turbo tuning complicated is related to controlling the turbocharger and how it produces boost.

With a supercharger, at any given RPM, it's going to have the same amount of air being displaced every time, with the only intake variations being air density as metered by MAF and the throttle position.

Hell, I'll bet you that with a P/D, you could Alpha N tune a supered car if you were clever enough.

[Bimmerman325i]

In terms of tuning, it seems like it would be more like an N/A motor than like a turbo motor. There's no wastegate control for one, there's no boost targeting, none of that. All of what makes turbo tuning complicated is related to controlling the turbocharger and how it produces boost.

With a supercharger, at any given RPM, it's going to have the same amount of air being displaced every time, with the only intake variations being air density as metered by MAF and the throttle position.

Hell, I'll bet you that with a P/D, you could Alpha N tune a supered car if you were clever enough.

Um....matt works for/ownes/tunes for TRM. I think he knows how to tune these better than you would, no offense.

[sharky]

Yeah I think Matt and TRM know abit more than anyone on here about the tuning, thats why I am picking them for my tune, that and they are good to deal with and I like my NA tune from them.

[matt]

In terms of tuning, it seems like it would be more like an N/A motor than like a turbo motor. There's no wastegate control for one, there's no boost targeting, none of that. All of what makes turbo tuning complicated is related to controlling the turbocharger and how it produces boost.

Seems like... maybe. But it isn't. Controlling the turbocharger is all mechanical, or done by an electronic boost controller. All the tune has to do is deal with the turbocharger's consequences.

With a supercharger, at any given RPM, it's going to have the same amount of air being displaced every time, with the only intake variations being air density as metered by MAF and the throttle position.

This is mostly correct, but exactly UNLIKE an NA car.

Hell, I'll bet you that with a P/D, you could Alpha N tune a supered car if you were clever enough.

You could, but a MAF is better.

Yeah I think Matt and TRM know abit more than anyone on here about the tuning, thats why I am picking them for my tune, that and they are good to deal with and I like my NA tune from them.

Thanks!

[triggrhaapi]

Seems like... maybe. But it isn't. Controlling the turbocharger is all mechanical, or done by an electronic boost controller. All the tune has to do is deal with the turbocharger's consequences.

Right, but with a turbo, there is MASSIVE variance in pressure. A turbo has to spool when you're off boost, so the computer has way more on it's plate in terms of partial throttle than a supered car or n/a car. The hard part of a turbo car is NOT the WOT tuning, it's the partial throttle stuff.

In terms of a supered car versus a turbo car, partial throttle on a supered car is much more like an n/a car becuase there is no pressure variance, the super is working EXACTLY as hard regardless of what your foot is doing. Supers don't take breaks.

Sure, in terms of WOT maps a supered car is more like a turbo car than not. WOT maps are the easy (er) part of tuning. Having built a Supra TT back in the day, I know all about that. I'm not an expert and I don't do it for a living, but I know more than nothing by a significant margin.

This is mostly correct, but exactly UNLIKE an NA car.

The only difference between a supered and n/a car is pressure instead of vacuum. All other things are identical. Cam timing is a different game, ignition timing is a different game. All of the similarities, as I said, between turbo and super have to do with WOT tuning, which is, as I said, the easy part.

You could, but a MAF is better.

But you can't do that with a turbo car can you? As you think about what I meant when I said what I did to initiate this discussion, think about why you can't very well Alpha N a turbo car.

I'm not trying to knock on you at all, nor am I trying to start a pissing contest. I'm also not an idiot. I honestly respect you, I just think you misunderstood my meaning, and got a bit ahead of yourself.

[triggrhaapi]

Um....matt works for/ownes/tunes for TRM. I think he knows how to tune these better than you would, no offense.

I don't take any offense. Having once built a 427whp Supra TT on stock turbos, I would think I'm at least qualified to be in the discussion here. You don't know me from adam.