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    m52tu obd-1 questions

    I recently picked one up from a wrecked 99 528i. Not even positive that the motor's good yet, or if Im even going to use it..But from what i understand its dual vanos. Ive been reading alot of other peoples projects, while trying to sift through the mis-information. So, sorry if this has been re-hashed 100 times.

    Can I switch everything over to obd-1? What exactly is the extra effort involved when comparing the m52TU to the m52. Id like to keep it as simple as possible electronics wise. Anyone who's used this motor in an e30 please chime in-

    -Jay
    -Jay

    2014 NASA FL se30 champ #81
    2001 se46 3 year plan in progress



    #2
    Have you looked at hoveringuy's thread. Its going to be the same for an M52tu and M54.

    http://r3vlimited.com/board/showthre...&highlight=m54

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by nwvb bmw View Post
      Have you looked at hoveringuy's thread. Its going to be the same for an M52tu and M54.

      http://r3vlimited.com/board/showthre...&highlight=m54

      99% similar. The M52tu has a flow-through fuel rail where the M54 is returnless. The rail doesn't have the FPR on it, so you will still need an external FPR.

      I ran mine with on/off VANOS for a few months until I got the variable control circuit working and it wasn't a big deal. It was my DD that way. If you could find a way to mechanically limit VANOS from 20 degrees to 12.5 you wouldn't need anything for VANOS at all.

      Motor is good for around 205 whp with a flat torque curve. I would throw a turbo on it.

      Comment


        #4
        The only reason why people think M52 are harder to get running (or are more electrically complicated) than M50 is because they all have EWS in the computers. If you have a donor car, take the key, key barrel, key antenna, ews transmit and ews recieve module out of it, then simply transfer it over with the donors computer.

        Or, if your like me and dont care about having an immobilizer, send a message to Matt at The racers market. He can disable the EWS, and then your left with a swap thats less work (and money, you save in conversion costs) than converting to OBD I, as well as retaining all the advantages of the later engine (VANOS) and electronics (more powerful computer, greater ability to tune). His tune works great in my swap, I'm sure he could hook you up.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by hoveringuy View Post
          99% similar. The M52tu has a flow-through fuel rail where the M54 is returnless. The rail doesn't have the FPR on it, so you will still need an external FPR.

          I ran mine with on/off VANOS for a few months until I got the variable control circuit working and it wasn't a big deal. It was my DD that way. If you could find a way to mechanically limit VANOS from 20 degrees to 12.5 you wouldn't need anything for VANOS at all.

          Motor is good for around 205 whp with a flat torque curve. I would throw a turbo on it.
          Wrong.
          Mechanical Changes
          In addition to the increased displacement of the M54B30 engine, several mechanical
          changes were incorporated into the engine for reduced emissions and increased fuel economy.
          These changes include:
          • NEW PISTONS - The pistons have a shorter skirt compared to the M52TU and
          continue with the graphite coating for friction and emission reducing measures. The
          piston rings have been modified to reduce friction.
          • CRANKSHAFT - The crankshaft for the 3 liter M54 is adopted from the S52B32 -
          M3 engine. The crankshaft for the 2.5 liter is carried over from M52TU.
          • CAMSHAFT - The camshaft for the 3 liter M54 is modified with more lift (9.7 mm)
          and new valve springs to accommodate the increased lift. The camshaft of the 2.5
          liter M54 is carried over from the M52TU engine.
          • INTAKE MANIFOLD - The intake manifold is modified with shorter ram tubes (20mm
          shorter on 3 liter/10mm shorter on 2.5 liter). The diameter of the tubes is increased
          slightly.
          • INJECTION VALVES - The diameter of the injection pintle has increased slightly for
          the increased displacement of the 3 liter engine. The injectors for the 2.5 liter engine
          carry over from the M52TU.

          Originally posted by Dissembler View Post
          The only reason why people think M52 are harder to get running (or are more electrically complicated) than M50 is because they all have EWS in the computers. If you have a donor car, take the key, key barrel, key antenna, ews transmit and ews recieve module out of it, then simply transfer it over with the donors computer.

          Or, if your like me and dont care about having an immobilizer, send a message to Matt at The racers market. He can disable the EWS, and then your left with a swap thats less work (and money, you save in conversion costs) than converting to OBD I, as well as retaining all the advantages of the later engine (VANOS) and electronics (more powerful computer, greater ability to tune). His tune works great in my swap, I'm sure he could hook you up.
          Half wrong or out of context. If you are debating the degree of difficulty amonst single vanos family engines then yes that is one of the primary reasons SOME people go OBDI. However, with all these tuning companies out there I know of Bimmerworld doing EWS I and II deletes either sending in your DME or with an e-prom chip for early models. I wouldn't say this adds any complexity to the swap, aside from the shipping and the $200 cost. On the M52 TU and the M54 They use the new siemans ems and EWS III. I don't think that is as much of an obstacle as is the integration of the true variable vanos control and not a switched position set up.


          Some required reading for you both.

          http://www.kinmak.com/downloads/doc/...ng/Engines.pdf
          Originally posted by 325Projectz
          don't listen to the diagram... listen to mr. swiss.
          :nice:

          Comment


            #6
            uhm.. I think he's talking electronics, not the obvious changes in displacement, cams, etc. duh.
            Build thread

            Bimmerlabs

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by nando View Post
              uhm.. I think he's talking electronics, not the obvious changes in displacement, cams, etc. duh.
              Correct. I'm just talking about things that need to be done to run the motor. I'm aware of the crankshaft, pistons, injectors, etc.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Mr.SWISS View Post
                However, with all these tuning companies out there I know of Bimmerworld doing EWS I and II deletes either sending in your DME or with an e-prom chip for early models. I wouldn't say this adds any complexity to the swap, aside from the shipping and the $200 cost. On the M52 TU and the M54 They use the new siemans ems and EWS III. I don't think that is as much of an obstacle as is the integration of the true variable vanos control and not a switched position set up.
                Umm, you pretty much agreed with everything I said lol. I said send you ecu out to get EWS flashed out, and you don't have to worry about changing electronics or converting to obd 1.

                Why is integration of variable vanos a problem if your not changing anything inside the ecu except for ews requirements?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Dissembler View Post
                  Umm, you pretty much agreed with everything I said lol. I said send you ecu out to get EWS flashed out, and you don't have to worry about changing electronics or converting to obd 1.

                  Why is integration of variable vanos a problem if your not changing anything inside the ecu except for ews requirements?
                  Getting EWS flashed out of the MS42/MS43 is, last I checked, not as simple as you think it is.
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                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by nrubenstein View Post
                    Getting EWS flashed out of the MS42/MS43 is, last I checked, not as simple as you think it is.
                    maybe so, but its been done and is commercially available from several companies. I'm not the one flashing out the ews, just paying for it, so what do I care how complicated it is as long as it works?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Dissembler View Post
                      Umm, you pretty much agreed with everything I said lol. I said send you ecu out to get EWS flashed out, and you don't have to worry about changing electronics or converting to obd 1.

                      Why is integration of variable vanos a problem if your not changing anything inside the ecu except for ews requirements?
                      Well, I am not TOTALLY sure there IS a company doing EWS deleted on these DME's. From what I gathered ( may be totally off here) You are wanting to run a M52tu on an OBD1 setup. A set up that has no provision for exhaust vanos, which the tu has. So you are left with a Stand alone that willlikley run fuel spark and a preset vanos setting, not dynamic cam profile adjustment which is how it works normally.

                      Originally posted by nrubenstein View Post
                      Getting EWS flashed out of the MS42/MS43 is, last I checked, not as simple as you think it is.
                      That's what I was trying to tell them, hence the reason from what I have found, most people are running Motec with a on/off preset vanos adjustment similar to gen I VTEC.



                      Now I have a ? WTF would you swap in a M52 tu any damn way? Moar Powar!
                      Originally posted by 325Projectz
                      don't listen to the diagram... listen to mr. swiss.
                      :nice:

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Mr.SWISS View Post
                        Well, I am not TOTALLY sure there IS a company doing EWS deleted on these DME's. From what I gathered ( may be totally off here) You are wanting to run a M52tu on an OBD1 setup. A set up that has no provision for exhaust vanos, which the tu has. So you are left with a Stand alone that willlikley run fuel spark and a preset vanos setting, not dynamic cam profile adjustment which is how it works normally.
                        MarkD and bimmerworld both have EWS 3 figured out for those who want to swap an S54 into their e30/6s (they sell plug and play kits, don't remember if they utilize the electronic throttle bodies or not).

                        Good point about the exhaust vanos and trying to run it on obd 1. To the OP, attempting to go OBD I with a M52tu kinda defeats the purpose lol

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Now I have a ? WTF would you swap in a M52 tu any damn way? Moar Powar!
                          well because it was 250 bucks, and the m20's getting tired.
                          -Jay

                          2014 NASA FL se30 champ #81
                          2001 se46 3 year plan in progress


                          Comment


                            #14
                            If I were you I would just part it out and do the much easier s50 swap, I would bet you could make enough from parting out the e39.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Dissembler View Post
                              Good point about the exhaust vanos and trying to run it on obd 1. To the OP, attempting to go OBD I with a M52tu kinda defeats the purpose lol
                              Yea, id agree.

                              I would go s50 but im not paying anything over 500 for a motor. Im only going to do it if its an outrageously cheap deal. I picked this motor up because the guy was in a bind and had to get rid of it fast- at this point ill just pass it on to someone who can use it.
                              -Jay

                              2014 NASA FL se30 champ #81
                              2001 se46 3 year plan in progress


                              Comment

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