S50/S52 swap... is it worth it?

[Wanganstyle]

Huh?

Maybe if you've got a bunch of blowby. My oil has a school day and 2 autocrosses on it, as well as about 2000 street miles. It's a nice golden color.

VANOS does not "cook" oil. It's a hydralic piston that moves back and forth, not much to it.

vanos uses oil to do something. This creates heat- try banging it off rev limiter every single gear on the track in the middle of summer desert heat next time!!!! drive it harder!!!!


Perhaps your motor was much nicer shape than my old S52, mine had over 10 track days, Drift days and had no mercy shown to it.; 1:50 w passenger@ laguna on stock ecu; full weight ac street car.

[Wanganstyle]

OK I am doing the math...

M52 + Turbo.

Plus the S54 motor alone is 6K so your 'math' might be a little bit off. What about trans? What about tuning? Parts to install? Sorry but an S54 is
not the best or even close to the best swap candidate at this point.

YES. if RWHP numbers is more important than feel to you;

M52+ turbo is best power for your $$$$$ all day long.

OR you can consider M50b25+turbo. works very well and the starting mill is even more dime a dozen.

This is assuming you want a TURBO in your car, Turbo power is not = NA power.

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NA power costs 400% x $$$$ of Turbo power.

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As far as pricing is concerned; your experience will vary.
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Call around, check Craigslist, local classifieds etc- OR buy a complete T boned E46m and part out/keep to profit.

more than a year ago my S54 cost me $4450 or so delivered to my door with warrenty from a large vendor - you can definately do better; Crappy Economy = cash talks wonders.



I was thrifty and kept my existing S52 5 speed driveline and complete setup originally installed in my e36m,
did not even take it out of the car... 5 speed never failed me on track, I saw no reason to change it out.
$0



I spent about $1500 on mis items such as electronics, VAC E-throttle delete and ANS-10 conversion, an-10 carbon fiber lines for oil cooler, etc etc etc $$$$$$ S54 coils are unique, you can run the 80amp alternator if desired - I ended up installing a 140amp unit from e36 vert for plug and play into my e36 wiring.

DTA S100 unit was about 2K. You can do the bimmerworld route if your car is a street car, its the same cost really.

tuning cost about $$2,500 in fuel and 5 months of burning tires on serious high speed loaded aero fighter pulls. Could have cost a LOT more If the CHP had been watching.......

Wiring the S54 was 1 week of my life. $$$priceless.


total for my project ~ 10.5K

IF I had commissioned a S52 NA build for my needs I would have spent about:

$3.5k in bottom end and oiling
2.5K in valvetrain+cams
1.5k in mapping and electronics

roughly 7.5k vs 10.5K so a 40% premium to have 310rwhp and 8400 rpm vs having 270rwhp and 7600 rpm.

Pump gas 91 NA gains of 40hp and 800 RPM...... is that worth $2.5K to you?

S54 also used S52 alternator, starter, power steering pump, engine arms and mounts, radiator hoses (as mine were new), aluminum radiator. My car had E36 euro water overflow tank already installed.

If you are a very good DIY person and can tune your own and wire your own (fully homegrown home rolled)

then a standalone style S54 install will cost $7-9K.
if you are hiring a shop, budget about $15k. its expensive.

Nobody said speed was CHEAP, I was just making relative comparisons and stating the logic that made me plunk down cash money and tear my running s52 M3 apart. My track car wore out its S52 after a couple seasons of serious tracking and drifting and Tarmac attack. It was VERY reliable and quite fast 100% stock s52 power, 1:50 with passenger timing @ laguna seca, full interior and Ac.



Driveline:

I Used OEM 5 speed gearbox from my S52, kept everything else the same, S52 stock clutch handles S50b32 power just fine, and so does the diff. 5 speed ~ 20 lbs or so lighter than the 6mt, and for track racing you should be gearing your machine properly anyways.

S52 clutch setup with its fly can bolt up directly and play into any S54; if you want to run the 6mt transmission just change the center friction disc to a large spline unit- they are both 240mm. 540i, M5 e39 all use this 240mm setup

No more expense on driveline than S52 engine, BMW equipped the Z3m s54 car w/ the same Zfsg320 trans attached to it with same clutch as S52 M3 and S52 z3m. S52 clutch is also standard equipment on Euro S50b32 321hp engine.

Here is my s54 swap thread if you want to know what is all included for a DIY installation.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1437471

My Next E36M is going to be turbocharged, 3000cc or less.

[dinanm3atl]

That link just tells making it work. The list is long to do it right.

New sensors, gaskets, plugs and the like. Of course all the mechanical swap parts. The list of doing it right is much shorter than the list of making it work.

[bzboardz]

OK so after all the reading ( jesus that was a lot haha ) but thanks for all the responses... what do I need to do a legit swap?

As in EVERYTHING? I'm really considering it...
I don't want to go half ass, if I'm going to make my e30 last another 10 years... what do I need to do?

http://www.e30dohc.com/wiki/index.php?title=DOHC_Swap_Basics

the sticky at the top of the sub forum is a good start

[Suspence]

OK so after all the reading ( jesus that was a lot haha ) but thanks for all the responses... what do I need to do a legit swap?

As in EVERYTHING? I'm really considering it...
I don't want to go half ass, if I'm going to make my e30 last another 10 years... what do I need to do?

[CoClimber]

Shit adds up that's for sure, especially if you do things the right way.

Heck, even if you do it the wrong way!:D

I stopped counting the time and money that went into my S50 swap and I'm not done yet. I'll let you know if I think it's worth it after I do my first track day. I suspect, however, that I already know the answer.

[Adrian_Visser]

Shit adds up that's for sure, especially if you do things the right way.

[e30rapidic]

S50 swap better be worth it! I will find out shortly...

[nmlss2006]

I will mention from experience: $2500 if you hand him an E30 and an S52 with trans the way it comes out of an E36 and he hands you back an E30 with the S52 and trans proprerly in it is a VERY GOOD PRICE, as in let me know where he is and I'll bring him cars all day.
If you have to start adding driveshaft, iX booster, exhaust, engine mounts, DME, chip, fan, and the 2500 is just the labor, it's a different story.
Don't believe the 'I had this E30 I did the swap with $1000' people. It doesn't work that way. Not even if you count your time at $0/hr and you're swapping an M20 for another M20.

[phreshkid]

I just asked that question because everybody talks about m50/52 turbo but I rarely hear about s50/52 turbo'd. That's all sorry

No but you're asking questions without a single variable taken into consideration.
You cannot directly compare two motors from two cars with two different turbos running the exact same engine management system.

The only way your turbo question makes sense is if you literally compare two cars with the exact same setups, only difference between the two being the motors and in this case, an s50 vs an m52/m50.

Think about it man.

[mohamadr89]

Dude you are asking some seriously terrible questions.
I'm not even trying to be an ass either.

I just asked that question because everybody talks about m50/52 turbo but I rarely hear about s50/52 turbo'd. That's all sorry

[Philo]

Best bang for the buck, M52.

All the dyno talk is silly. Too many variances to even begin an argument.

OP, don't pay that ridiculous price for the swap. For that price I could fly out, stay at a fancy hotel, rent a garage space w/ tools, and still afford a happy meal at mac does.

[phreshkid]

okay good because for a 2nd the other guy had me feeling like i should of bought a s54 instead of my s50. but i just didnt have the money. i think once i build and turbo the s50 it should make great power. lol how does the s50 turbo compare with a m52 turbo?

Dude you are asking some seriously terrible questions.
I'm not even trying to be an ass either.

[mohamadr89]

Haven't seen these 3500 dollar Engine, Trans, DME and wiring. I have seen 5-6K ones though. Then you add in 3K for tuning/electronics and you are at what? 8-9K? What about the driveshaft? Engine mounts? Trans mount? What about the actual trans brace? Is there an OEM driveshaft to use? Need a Guibo. Yes and then exhaust and some sort of intake. What cooling system setup do you use?

There is more to a swap than "Engine/trans and a DEM". I think you are skipping a lot of cost and/or skimping on parts. I have estimated and bee told expect 10K to swap an S54 at minimum to be done right. You can claim otherwise and I'll let you have your opinion...

However once I am at 8K? M52 + Turbo. Weight? Maybe it is slightly heavier. It will make more power. Will be super reliable because to make more power than that S54 requires low boost. It makes cooler noises. If you pop a motor it isn't another 5K to replace it. It is 500-800 bucks.

Sorry but IMO the S54 is not a 'budget minded' swap into any BMW.

okay good because for a 2nd the other guy had me feeling like i should of bought a s54 instead of my s50. but i just didnt have the money. i think once i build and turbo the s50 it should make great power. lol how does the s50 turbo compare with a m52 turbo?

[Danny]

lolling at the kids who've never had a 24v car dishing out advice on them.

Right?

ugh, I hate it when people post BS like this

who cares? the M20 has dual valve springs, nobody's doing 12v swaps? The later motors have better, lighter drivetrains, that don't need dual springs, and better, lighter bottom ends, that can rev higher out of the box. the NV motor is an antiquated relic compared to something like an M52B28.

also, I want to know where all these 300hp S50's are. The ones that didn't cost $10k to build..

Must have stumbled onto some secret as I know cars with those mods or very similar and they are not making the same power. As said before that exhaust cost almost as much as a used S/C kit so outside of making a bunch of noise it just is not worth spending that money. This is not typical gains for N/A bolt on mods.




Shoot. I want to know where all these 300hp S52s are that only have basic bolt-ons. And on top of that again... you will spend as much in N/A bolt-ons that supposedly get you to 300hp(or more) as it would to buy a used supercharger. I have heard of now 1 supposed '300hp' S52 and it is right here on this forum. All the E36 M3s are not putting down 245hp from basic bolt ons and the amount of money spent for that mod list is just too much for what you are getting.

Also the other thing to consider is I have seen a stock late model car put down 218 before. Thus considering if you got another strong factory motor your 'gains' are not as much as the estimation. There are plenty of threads on bf.c talking about the kind of gains you can see and what you can do. 300hp means cams for almost anyone you ask.

And yes. The N/V had this time period when everyone had a hard on for it but that time has passed. It isn't THAT great. I wouldn't waste your time on it. VANOS is a good thing.

M52, gasket, studs and a well tuned pieced together turbo kit. S52 will never make 300 without FI and or major expensive internals. Hell my S52 obd1 w/ AA stg1 SC only does like 310whp

2500 labor? I charge a decent bit less than that.

Haven't seen these 3500 dollar Engine, Trans, DME and wiring. I have seen 5-6K ones though. Then you add in 3K for tuning/electronics and you are at what? 8-9K? What about the driveshaft? Engine mounts? Trans mount? What about the actual trans brace? Is there an OEM driveshaft to use? Need a Guibo. Yes and then exhaust and some sort of intake. What cooling system setup do you use?

There is more to a swap than "Engine/trans and a DEM". I think you are skipping a lot of cost and/or skimping on parts. I have estimated and bee told expect 10K to swap an S54 at minimum to be done right. You can claim otherwise and I'll let you have your opinion...

However once I am at 8K? M52 + Turbo. Weight? Maybe it is slightly heavier. It will make more power. Will be super reliable because to make more power than that S54 requires low boost. It makes cooler noises. If you pop a motor it isn't another 5K to replace it. It is 500-800 bucks.

Sorry but IMO the S54 is not a 'budget minded' swap into any BMW.

Listen to these guys^

since your in CA, i'll bring up the smog/registration issue. i believe if you let a shop swap it for you, its easier to get it ref. so you don't have to go through a whole bunch of crap.

Wrong. My swap was easy to ref and I did it in my backyard. Paid the BAR station 8 bucks and 2 hours of my time. If you do it right, it'll pass.